5 of Miracle Whips (that means Cinco de Mayo)

[monsTo]

gratz on gettin things up there wraith. IMO it's about 82.7% happiness. Here's a couple of observations.

1) Optional: the mix of monsters is decent. only thing that might be worth an optional tweak is more bio titans at some point. they only appear in small handfulls, but not enuf to IMO warrant their use. Replacing them entirely with regular titans or having more of them would be a bit more interestion.

2) there's a couple of maps that aren't good to play on.

• 3 Pillars appears broken, cuz there's no adrenalin growth on the map. even from killin things you get no adren. That completely kills AMs and Medics both
• Special Weapon Quest. if the quest areas were removed from the map and the bits that were connected to the main open were left (including a couple of the hallway areas) it'd be more better.
• if they must be in the rotation, can we please only have 1 version of shitka khans, dumb of dumb and the other "oh god my eyes please why" maps? Yes i'd rather see them all pulled, but in lieu of that, only 1 version of each would be preferable...

3) what happened to the hit sound? it sounds sick now. IMO it was fine before, but according to the msg that was up i guess some thought it was too loud. Rather than editing an external sound (that wasn't part of the retail game was it?), how about using a retail sound that ppl don't have to dl. like the hover sound for menu choices on the main menu. (My sound player in Ued is busted so i can't find it by name but i'm sure someone could)

4) about mines, i'm not convinced that reducing mines actually helps reduce load. after about wave 6 and definitely after 8 or so, the max # of mines is probably irrelevant. i never have more than 3 or 4 out at a time anyway at that point cuz i'm in the middle of herds of bad guys.

I think a bigger impact would be made by reducing pets. Dropping the number of pets to 2 or even 1 pet will reduce AI, shot tracking, pathing, etc. Even if the AI is simplified, the fact that any 60th lv medic can easily have 3 brutes or metallic skaarj out means that any map gets cluttered with pets really quick.

This would have the cascading effect of reducing the kills that higher level players get (cuz their pets take on their owners stats) which means more baddies to spread around, meaning they might last long enuf to actually kill someone. playing on Pasargadae Core tonight, at one point the central room had over 15 pets in it.

5) Lastly, i would def suggest not aiming for 100% happiness. No matter how hard you try you simply can't please everybody. there will always be someone to complain or threaten to 'never come back goddammit' because of a change that you made to please someone else. I think it's perfectly fine to have a "thats good enuf" goal of 90% happiness based on play-affecting issues, not trivialities or simply candy.

The worst part of this is that nobody likes being an asshole. It can be difficult to drag up the ability to be asshole enuf to tell people to "just shutup and play cuz it's fine." (if you need lessons let me know cuz i'm good at it). What most ppl don't realize is that at any moment, you or toxic or snaggle or anyone else could up and decide "fuck this shit" and not forum post or respond to emails or even play the game at all . . . and be just like most gameserver admins.

So for what you do, and what you've put up with from various pplz (including me) you deserve more than just people simpley holding their ire. Personally i've never hung around a gameserver or it's attached forum for any more than about 50 posts. Thanks for being the driving force behind what's made it worth hanging around.

[medic_fred]

if you reduced pets then it would only be fair to kill the other classes to, no loaded weps and a max of 100 adrenelin. that sounds about equal to haveing only 1 pet.

[DW_ACY]

Not really fred considering medics job is supposed to be to heal. 12 pet having your abilities and your strength plus you to heal him, and resummon once you have adren, that is overkill. I think one would be resonable if thats what was decided. And losing the classes makes no sense because that is part of the RPG that is being used. Fred know what your talking about in regards to this server and why it was set up the way it is. Just a friendly suggestion.

[zeus]

Not really fred considering medics job is supposed to be to heal. 12 pet having your abilities and your strength plus you to heal him, and resummon once you have adren, that is overkill. I think one would be resonable if thats what was decided. And losing the classes makes no sense because that is part of the RPG that is being used. Fred know what your talking about in regards to this server and why it was set up the way it is. Just a friendly suggestion.

That is not completely true ACY. If that was the case, then only weapons masters would kill things while medics and adrens sit back in cubby holes and supply the WM with crap.

Everyone gets to play how they feel. I think that RM is a medic without any monsters. And he owns every map he plays. He kills me when I am really trying. Usually, my only chance to catch up with him is to get some Luci kills and hope that he doesn't get any.

So, actually, if you take away my the points I have invested in monsters and give those back to me, I would not be surprised if I ended up even more powerful than I am now. Because to tell you the truth, it is a lot of overhead to manage the pets. Plus, when you are out fighting, the only weapon you can use is you medic weapon: 1. no resupply 2. you will kill your own pets. I can't use deemers or any other high powered weapon because I will knock out my pets.

This is the same old discussion we keep having. If you start to reduce one role's power than you need to start reducing the others. When Wraith reset the monster levels (and I am not disagreeing with what he did) I stopped putting points into it because basically, I dont' think it was worth it. The raptor kind of sucks, vagary is useless, and the titans are slow.

Medics are the easiest to get started. But, they top out early. It is actually pretty mundane to play with a medic since you do the same thing over and over.
Then comes adren masters. Once you pile up the adren and you have a globe and triple, get a couple of energy weapons and resupply, watch out.
Then come the weapon masters. They are extremely hard to start, but once they get going, with resupply, vamp, etc. they are unstoppable.

And then you have to worry about what maps you are playing. Some are set up better for one class than others. Think about the maps with unlimited adren. That just makes the adren masters crazy powerful. Cheap has learned this. He maintains all three roles and switches between what he thinks is best for him and what the team may be lacking.

Plus, you have to worry about who is on the server with you. If there are a bunch of lower people then my medic character will wipe out. I was playing some egyptian god map the other day. I got 30 Holy Shit kills in a row because I ended up with a triple in a corner with tons of raptors and a bunch of n00bs. I was so far ahead by end of wave 7 I don't think that anyone could have caught up with me. Sometimes, however, between RM and KK and Cheap getting on a role I could end up fifth or sixth.

I am not trying to start an argument, but everyone plays how they want to play and each role has their advantages and disadvantages. I play to win the round and I play to try and get the highest score possible. When I see people who need healing I will heal them, but if I need to defend myself first, than that is what is going to happen. I give away weapons (basically all for my medic) and shineys I don't use. But, if it is something to my advantage, I keep it. Some other people may play differently, I am sure. And that is their perogative. There are probably people who are more selfish than I am and people who are less.

[zeus]

4) about mines, i'm not convinced that reducing mines actually helps reduce load. after about wave 6 and definitely after 8 or so, the max # of mines is probably irrelevant. i never have more than 3 or 4 out at a time anyway at that point cuz i'm in the middle of herds of bad guys.

I think that the thought of reducing (or even removing) the mines, is not just about server load, but more about pure spam.

I am all for everyone and their mother having infinite mine layers on large open maps. But, it sucks on tiny enclosed maps.

I played Chacka Crap a couple of weeks ago and got owned by a couple of 60 level characters becaues they had inf ML. I literally could not not get a ping sound to save my life while standing in the middle of the room.

On the reverse, I could win The End, everytime (before Wraith took out the ML) by just sitting in one of the cubby holes and using my Medic ML to shoot in the middle of the floor until Luci came out. And I picked that up from Stabby, so I know I am not the only one who has done it.

So, recap, IMHO mines on small maps bad, mines on large maps don't care. :brilsmurf:

[DW_Hornet]

The worst part of this is that nobody likes being an asshole.

Not true

Ok heres an idea. Teleporting shield titan.

[DW_ACY]

if you reduced pets then it would only be fair to kill the other classes to, no loaded weps and a max of 100 adrenelin. that sounds about equal to haveing only 1 pet.

Zeus this response I believe was more drastic than the idea of one pet. because he is suggesting that the inate ability to use certain items and abilities be completly reduced. 100 adren and no loaded weapons really I believe the suggestion and I said suggestion of one pet if and only if it was deemed the way to go.
I believe the way you do that people should play the way they want to, but the claiming the high score at the death of all around you in the end to me is self defeating and should and more often will result in the persons own death on maps. Each class was set up a certain way with a certain idea for play in mind, MEDIC/MONSTER MASTER, ADRENMASTER, WEAPONMASTER. I feel that the RPG element gets lost in everyone trying to own the map. I will give weapons to almost anyone who asks. Then as you stated there are maps and days were I won't. But over all map choice is the determining factor for how the roles most often will play out, and chak a crap, dome of dumb, rock paper kill really, really get old when they are played 10 times a day.

I guess I have issues with the idea that owning the map and getting the high score is the impetus for playing. I understand that it is what drives people but the class names were given names for a reason and they each were put in the game for a purpose.

I g

[medic_fred]

if you reduced pets then it would only be fair to kill the other classes to, no loaded weps and a max of 100 adrenelin. that sounds about equal to haveing only 1 pet.

Zeus this response I believe was more drastic than the idea of one pet. because he is suggesting that the inate ability to use certain items and abilities be completly reduced. 100 adren and no loaded weapons really I believe the suggestion and I said suggestion of one pet if and only if it was deemed the way to go.
I believe the way you do that people should play the way they want to, but the claiming the high score at the death of all around you in the end to me is self defeating and should and more often will result in the persons own death on maps. Each class was set up a certain way with a certain idea for play in mind, MEDIC/MONSTER MASTER, ADRENMASTER, WEAPONMASTER. I feel that the RPG element gets lost in everyone trying to own the map. I will give weapons to almost anyone who asks. Then as you stated there are maps and days were I won't. But over all map choice is the determining factor for how the roles most often will play out, and chak a crap, dome of dumb, rock paper kill really, really get old when they are played 10 times a day.

I guess I have issues with the idea that owning the map and getting the high score is the impetus for playing. I understand that it is what drives people but the class names were given names for a reason and they each were put in the game for a purpose.

I g

i was just saying that if you are going to cripple one class its only fair to do it to all the other classes, what you said about the classes names, how they are there for a reason, its monster/medic not just medic. regardless of if monsters are good or not its one of the few abilities a medic gets, and some actually like it.

[zeus]

if you reduced pets then it would only be fair to kill the other classes to, no loaded weps and a max of 100 adrenelin. that sounds about equal to haveing only 1 pet.

Zeus this response I believe was more drastic than the idea of one pet. because he is suggesting that the inate ability to use certain items and abilities be completly reduced. 100 adren and no loaded weapons really I believe the suggestion and I said suggestion of one pet if and only if it was deemed the way to go.
I believe the way you do that people should play the way they want to, but the claiming the high score at the death of all around you in the end to me is self defeating and should and more often will result in the persons own death on maps. Each class was set up a certain way with a certain idea for play in mind, MEDIC/MONSTER MASTER, ADRENMASTER, WEAPONMASTER. I feel that the RPG element gets lost in everyone trying to own the map. I will give weapons to almost anyone who asks. Then as you stated there are maps and days were I won't. But over all map choice is the determining factor for how the roles most often will play out, and chak a crap, dome of dumb, rock paper kill really, really get old when they are played 10 times a day.

I guess I have issues with the idea that owning the map and getting the high score is the impetus for playing. I understand that it is what drives people but the class names were given names for a reason and they each were put in the game for a purpose.

I g

I agree. If you are going to start taking away things from one class, then you need to take other things away from other classes. I think that they are relatively balanced like they are right now.


i was just saying that if you are going to cripple one class its only fair to do it to all the other classes, what you said about the classes names, how they are there for a reason, its monster/medic not just medic. regardless of if monsters are good or not its one of the few abilities a medic gets, and some actually like it.

[zeus]

if you reduced pets then it would only be fair to kill the other classes to, no loaded weps and a max of 100 adrenelin. that sounds about equal to haveing only 1 pet.

Zeus this response I believe was more drastic than the idea of one pet. because he is suggesting that the inate ability to use certain items and abilities be completly reduced. 100 adren and no loaded weapons really I believe the suggestion and I said suggestion of one pet if and only if it was deemed the way to go.
I believe the way you do that people should play the way they want to, but the claiming the high score at the death of all around you in the end to me is self defeating and should and more often will result in the persons own death on maps. Each class was set up a certain way with a certain idea for play in mind, MEDIC/MONSTER MASTER, ADRENMASTER, WEAPONMASTER. I feel that the RPG element gets lost in everyone trying to own the map. I will give weapons to almost anyone who asks. Then as you stated there are maps and days were I won't. But over all map choice is the determining factor for how the roles most often will play out, and chak a crap, dome of dumb, rock paper kill really, really get old when they are played 10 times a day.

I guess I have issues with the idea that owning the map and getting the high score is the impetus for playing. I understand that it is what drives people but the class names were given names for a reason and they each were put in the game for a purpose.

I g

Yeah, but these are abilities more than purpose. Otherwise I should get 100 pts for healing anyone. And a adren should only get points for sharing weapons. But, that is not how it works. The end game is to destroy the monsters. We each choose the abilities that we want. Then we choose the way we want to spend our points. Everyone is different.

If this was real life, than yeah, I would agree with you. Send the grunts in to kill everyone while the engineers provide tools and the doctors do what they can. But, really this is just about killing monsters.

And, I am just competitive. That is my personality. Heck, last night I had a score of 0 in one of the scrim maps. I have never had a score of 0. Pissed me off. :D

But, ONS is much different than MM. ;)