Some suggestions

[Watty]

Well, by calling coutershove useless is a little harsh in my book. Countershove is a great form of protection when a couple angus sneak up on you and start hacking away. Every bit of protection is helpful even in the lower waves.

[DW_KarmaKat]

I have another suggestion:
Countershove Replacement
Countershove must be one of the most useless skills in the game. It should be replaced with something akin to the old Sturdy weapon magic type. That would actually be useful, because it would stop you from getting bounced around by monsters.

Various salient points for countershove...and I agree with them, it is a useful skill...and would add that it's fun to "aim" monsters in certain directions from time to time as well. ;)

As for the bouncing around you receive from the monsters....it's one portion of their attack and it's up to you to figure out how to counter it with the skills and weapons you have available. Boots of Flight, Electromagnets and Flight and Earth Weapons come immediately to mind. If you're bemoaning the loss of Sturdy weapons, then you need to look at the Earth weapons...they not only reduce the effects of the monster's stomp, but they give you some additional protection as well.

KKat

[DW_BrainPan]

Meh, when you are at a high enough level to consider purchasing Countershove, Goros and Anguses should not threaten you. I am not even level 200 yet, but I massacre those monsters without a care in the world. What bugs me is getting tossed around by monsters when I am trying to stay put.

Sounds like a response from an AM who can globe and/or run a triple while using the powerful/maxed weapons they have created. There are other classes in the game.

[DW_ACY]

Sounds like a response from an AM who can globe and/or run a triple while using the powerful/maxed weapons they have created. There are other classes in the game.[/quote]


Yeah your right Brain I believe some people need to just play the game with all three character classes before they comment. And play them to at least 150.

[Nizelt]

well I have to agree that Countershove is a waste of points. im playing all 3 classes and as soon as they are on the point they dont really need other things so they can buy countershove you can survive the angus and gores already. atleast thats how I feel about it. if you want to survive longer you can better buy health or regen or something anything but Countershove. I would love to see a replacement something that stops the bouncing on some waves since its rediculous on some waves. or maybe something that reduces the effect of the seeker pull. Since on my WM im lvl 300 and im really annoyed by the pull effect. the shots dont do that much to me but the pulls are driving me nuts. Its like they are playing pinball with me.

[hamsterman]

I disagree that there should be a direct counter to Seeker grabs. That is one part of the game that works perfectly, in my opinion. You are supposed to be afraid of Seekers, or daring enough to exploit them. But regardless, the seekerbeams are not spammed everywhere like rocks and queenrockets, so they should be easy to dodge unless you are not paying attention.

You have made the point that Countershove is not completely useless, since the ability to send melee monsters flying away is always useful. Just make sure it works on Raptors. But, I still don't see how a high level player of any class could be seriously threatened by weak monsters like Angus and Goros, unless all the low level players were dead. Yes, these monsters destroyed me when I was low-level, but now they don't have a chance because I stop them in their tracks with null weapons. Weapon masters are even better off, because they can probably heal faster with vamp than those weak monsters can damage them in the first place, unless they are standing in the middle of a mob of Goros. Even I was practically invincible on the lower waves with just a vamp Minigun. Medics on the other hand are not designed to be in the middle of the fray, so I could see a them running into some problems if they pretended to be a tank and charged into a herd of Goros. Still, a high-level medic has tons of ways to heal, plus advanced DR.

The bottom line is that Countershove, while useful, won't significantly impact the survivability of a high level player who already has an extremely high survival rate on the low waves. And at the same time, Countershove is not useful enough to be worth it for a low level player. So I guess the point I have been trying to make is that Countershove is just a lousy skill, unless your level is so high that there is literally nothing else left to buy. But we all knew that already, right? Leave Countershove alone, but my suggestion for an anti-bouncing ability still stands.

Anyway, the situation that usually gets me is when I am behind cover and emerge to blast a few monsters with my MP5/Minigun/Shock Rifle and then hide to escape over 9000 rocks flying my way. The bouncing and jouncing of the monsters frequently knocks me out of my cover and into the barrage of said rocks. There is no way to counter this besides rapidly toggling to Globe or an Earth weapon (yes I knew Earth was the successor to Sturdy), and I am horrible at such feats of micromanagement. The Electromagnet would be nice if it didn't screw up your aim, and flight will just send you slipping and sliding out of cover.

[DW_KarmaKat]

Monsters were made the way they are....and we have made them that way for reasons of game play and difficulty. Higher waves should be hard! That's one of the things that encourages you all to make winning the map a team effort. If it takes some players hiding (and when you're hiding...hopefully you're not just standing there...you can roll weapons, heal people, reload people's weapons, AND toss mines! ;) ) and some out fighting, then that's what you do. :cheers:

Seeker pulls....well I look at them as alternative transportation... ;) They have even saved me from being crushed by Titan rocks...yanking me out of the way just in time! Or snatching me out of the jaws of hungry raptors. Yes, they are a challenge...particularly when you're trying to globe. I always make sure to have a trans set down somewhere on the seeker waves in case several of them are having badminton practice with my character. Also...if you don't have already, some levels of air master and iron legs will help you deal with unexpected flights. And...if you don't mind a swim, Seekers can't pull you out of deep water. So if there's a pool or something deep enough you can swim in, take a dip to foil the pulls.


KKat

[DW_KarmaKat]

...Anyway, the situation that usually gets me is when I am behind cover and emerge to blast a few monsters with my MP5/Minigun/Shock Rifle and then hide to escape over 9000 rocks flying my way. The bouncing and jouncing of the monsters frequently knocks me out of my cover and into the barrage of said rocks. There is no way to counter this besides rapidly toggling to Globe or an Earth weapon (yes I knew Earth was the successor to Sturdy), and I am horrible at such feats of micromanagement. The Electromagnet would be nice if it didn't screw up your aim, and flight will just send you slipping and sliding out of cover.

See my previous post about why monsters are made they way they are.... :compress:

And it would seem you've hit upon a solution that's already available...it would behoove you to fine tune those "micromanagement" skills.

KKat