The Enhanced Weapon Charm issue

[Bacon]

Arucard. i did get 6 enhacners. even ask snuggles. i found a total or 8 enhancers on that map. i found out the max was 6 enhancers. and i gave the other 2 to snuggles. im not "bluffing"

[arucard]

Arucard. i did get 6 enhacners. even ask snuggles. i found a total or 8 enhancers on that map. i found out the max was 6 enhancers. and i gave the other 2 to snuggles. im not "bluffing"

Ok. I thought you were. Anyways, the enhancement limit we, AM's, can put on an mp5 is +5 so what you have there is more powerful.

[-1PARA-Queenie]

I've played Medic in a server simmilar to UI and Monster Mash called GGA, in this server my medic was level 362 and I was the top scorer over all other players no matter the class or the level. In GGA they was no mp5, the inf medic gun was only 6% max damage and yet I was still number 1 because I'm competitive and I did enaugh TAM or DM to have the correct aim. And BTW I never complained about my 6% gun.


So I'm ready for a balance compromise, I admit that 6% for a medic gun is weak, but frankly 20% max on a medic gun is on my opinion a fair deal becuase it's equivalent to a real infinite +4 witch is 5% more dmg/+. And yes I agree to put damage back to 10% more dmg/+, 20% + triple is too much powerfull.

For me it's quite simple, if the inf medic gun is not cap at 20% i'm outta here because I won't play in an unbalance server.

Ok so you clearly did not actually read what I said. "IN DW SERVERS” it doesn’t matter where else you have played a medic this server is different it has different mods, different skills, different %'s for weapon types and all the rest of it. So thanks you just proved my point that you don’t know anything about playing a medic on DW servers so how you can complain about something you have never even tried is beyond me...

Playing my medic with EWC’s on my mp5 with a triple and playing my adren master with a damage +5 or my WM with a +4 damage with a triple I gotta say I’ll stick with my damage weapon and adren master or weapon master. Maybe yeah both should be dumbed down a little bit but taking it off medics completely is just dumb. It is one thing that a medic can use to be competitive where as an AM can roll as many Vorpal, Damage, Immolation, Petri or whatever they feel like that day and have there triple, globe, +1 enchantment and the double magic modifier aswel. Then the WM has all there vamp, resupply, every weapon and magic type useable because of resupply oh not to forget up to 6 deemers, I think it is with maxed ammo bonus. So please explain how this one thing for a medic that brings them to be slightly able to compete with AM's and WM's makes the server so horribly unbalanced towards the medic when it wasn’t balanced in any direction other than away from the medic beforehand and probably always will be like that??? Either which way issuing an ultimatum just so you get your own way is ridiculously childish. Just let wail, Choco and whoever else do there thing without demanding that things be changed to suit you. I’m gonna shut up now.

:queen:

[Jinx]

Ok so you clearly did not actually read what I said. "IN DW SERVERS” it doesn’t matter where else you have played a medic this server is different it has different mods, different skills, different %'s for weapon types and all the rest of it. So thanks you just proved my point that you don’t know anything about playing a medic on DW servers so how you can complain about something you have never even tried is beyond me...

Playing my medic with EWC’s on my mp5 with a triple and playing my adren master with a damage +5 or my WM with a +4 damage with a triple I gotta say I’ll stick with my damage weapon and adren master or weapon master. Maybe yeah both should be dumbed down a little bit but taking it off medics completely is just dumb. It is one thing that a medic can use to be competitive where as an AM can roll as many Vorpal, Damage, Immolation, Petri or whatever they feel like that day and have there triple, globe, +1 enchantment and the double magic modifier aswel. Then the WM has all there vamp, resupply, every weapon and magic type useable because of resupply oh not to forget up to 6 deemers, I think it is with maxed ammo bonus. So please explain how this one thing for a medic that brings them to be slightly able to compete with AM's and WM's makes the server so horribly unbalanced towards the medic when it wasn’t balanced in any direction other than away from the medic beforehand and probably always will be like that??? Either which way issuing an ultimatum just so you get your own way is ridiculously childish. Just let wail, Choco and whoever else do there thing without demanding that things be changed to suit you. I’m gonna shut up now.

:queen:

HAHA, this is why im rooting for you :D
and that basically sums it up but i said that myself..that he's trying to get it his way or no way but i ended up getting a warning from acy.
WTF.

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

Last night I asked Bacon-MM to chalenge me on my WM on SpacePyramid. We agree no EWC for him, no vorpal, immolation or piercing, no globe. We agree to use the triple only if we both have it and we both have 200 adren max. I got the triple on wave 1 and he got it on wave 9. We only began to use it on wave 10. I had an inf mp5 +4, a flak of energy +3 and a relefting shock +2. here are the result :

1 MMA>Bacom-MM : 9700 (~lvl 260) no EWC, no globe, 1 luci kill
2 DW>FrankyTheFly : 8800 (lvl 222) no Vorpal, no immolation, no globe, 1 luci kill
3 3th scorer : 3700

Now this is what I'm talking about. That is a BALANCE score. He beat me FAIR AND SQUARE and his score is quite REASONABLE. I'm pround to be beaten that way because he is a higher level then me and he got a better aim, and I can accept this without any problem. What i found inaceptable is someone scoring 15000+ when the second in place got 5000-6000.

So I'm asking again Wail, is it realy unfair to caps the medic mp5 to 20%? I'm even willing to make a compromise and accept 30% with or without the EWC.

[DW_SupernovA]

Last night I asked Bacon-MM to chalenge me on my WM on SpacePyramid. We agree no EWC for him, no vorpal, immolation or piercing, no globe. We agree to use the triple only if we both have it and we both have 200 adren max. I got the triple on wave 1 and he got it on wave 9. We only began to use it on wave 10. I had an inf mp5 +4, a flak of energy +3 and a relefting shock +2. here are the result :

1 MMA>Bacom-MM : 9700 (~lvl 260) no EWC, no globe, 1 luci kill
2 DW>FrankyTheFly : 8800 (lvl 222) no Vorpal, no immolation, no globe, 1 luci kill
3 3th scorer : 3700

Now this is what I'm talking about. That is a BALANCE score. He beat me FAIR AND SQUARE and his score is quite REASONABLE. I'm pround to be beaten that way because he is a higher level then me and he got a better aim, and I can accept this without any problem. What i found inaceptable is someone scoring 15000+ when the second in place got 5000-6000.

So I'm asking again Wail, is it realy unfair to caps the medic mp5 to 20%? I'm even willing to make a compromise and accept 30% with or without the EWC.

the difference here is that you were beaten because you didn't use a vorpal, immolation, piercing, or a globe. that's NOT balanced because that's NOT how WMs and AMs play realistically. long before the EWC, you had at least the vorpal and a globe, but it was balanced then? i think not, but i don't recall you ever complaining about balance then. had you used those items, your score would be much higher than that, and i know because i've seen you play before. if you want the EWC removed, are you willing to have the previously mentioned items removed as well? since that's what you think balance is. i think if you did another "test" with you using the items WMs/AMs use regularly against a medic without the EWC, you might find that it is once again, unbalanced, but in your favor. i agree with rocket queen and everyone else that has said this - play a medic on DW servers before you decide what's fair or unfair. i also stand by my statement that giving ultimatums to get what you want is juvenile and unfair, and it still sounds like you're doing just that.

[JulianKingOfNothing]

I agree with supernova. But recently last map I had the luck to find 5 ewc (most of em on late waves). But I've seen with 5ewc is ALMOST the same as having 2 of them. But now I've had more than 1 ewc I've noticed that it is kinda overpowerd. I mean, you can swat titans in less than a second.
I even got a new highscore of 15,8k points.
Here some numbers:
*Normal score without ewc: around 9k per map
*HighScore without ewc: 10,5k pts
*Highscore with 5 ewc: 15,8k points

So i'd say just limit the ewc's u can use to 2.
:pukeright: :geek: :pukeleft:

[DW_ACY]

Last night I asked Bacon-MM to chalenge me on my WM on SpacePyramid. We agree no EWC for him, no vorpal, immolation or piercing, no globe. We agree to use the triple only if we both have it and we both have 200 adren max. I got the triple on wave 1 and he got it on wave 9. We only began to use it on wave 10. I had an inf mp5 +4, a flak of energy +3 and a relefting shock +2. here are the result :

1 MMA>Bacom-MM : 9700 (~lvl 260) no EWC, no globe, 1 luci kill
2 DW>FrankyTheFly : 8800 (lvl 222) no Vorpal, no immolation, no globe, 1 luci kill
3 3th scorer : 3700

Now this is what I'm talking about. That is a BALANCE score. He beat me FAIR AND SQUARE and his score is quite REASONABLE. I'm pround to be beaten that way because he is a higher level then me and he got a better aim, and I can accept this without any problem. What i found inaceptable is someone scoring 15000+ when the second in place got 5000-6000.

So I'm asking again Wail, is it realy unfair to caps the medic mp5 to 20%? I'm even willing to make a compromise and accept 30% with or without the EWC.

the difference here is that you were beaten because you didn't use a vorpal, immolation, piercing, or a globe. that's NOT balanced because that's NOT how WMs and AMs play realistically. long before the EWC, you had at least the vorpal and a globe, but it was balanced then? i think not, but i don't recall you ever complaining about balance then. had you used those items, your score would be much higher than that, and i know because i've seen you play before. if you want the EWC removed, are you willing to have the previously mentioned items removed as well? since that's what you think balance is. i think if you did another "test" with you using the items WMs/AMs use regularly against a medic without the EWC, you might find that it is once again, unbalanced, but in your favor. i agree with rocket queen and everyone else that has said this - play a medic on DW servers before you decide what's fair or unfair. i also stand by my statement that giving ultimatums to get what you want is juvenile and unfair, and it still sounds like you're doing just that.

Now I will jump in for the simple fact that no not all WM will get a vorpal or peircing, and they sometimes come at a very high cost of adren and multiple levels rolling such weapon without getting kills. Those are all random and a part of the weapon master and am ability set that was a part of the original package. This has just recently been introduced super and I'm not saying that Medics need to be second class but I have noticed the same unbalance that has been created. Franky is very passionate about the unbalance, not that a MM is scoring high than him all the time. I could care less weather I am at the top of the score board but when my 300+ am is getting the snot kicked out of him by 120 and 150, we have a probelm. I am not a terrible shot, and I don't have an ego. Franky is asking for a balance. not the removal.

[DW_SupernovA]

now don't get me wrong, i don't disagree about balance among the classes. i don't at all think that this is about franky being upset over medics scoring higher than he does. however, i still think that he should play a medic on the DW servers before making a final decision. i also find it unfair of him to say things like "Fine you win I'm out of the servers it has become to unbalanced and too stupid," or "For me it's quite simple, if the inf medic gun is not cap at 20% i'm outta here because I won't play in an unbalance server." wail even said that he would tone it down before the last two statements were even posted, but that wasn't good enough?

my other point was franky is upset about balance now that medics are overpowered, but he never said anything about it when medics were underpowered. he previously said,

"You're a medic, fine assume you're role, and it's not supposed to kill more then a Weapon Master or an Adrenaline Master, it is suppose to support the team and kill less, you want to kill more be a AM or WM..."

i interpreted that statement pretty much the same way wail did - that medics are supposed to be weak and not be able to partipate in, as wail said, the core gameplay of invasion. if you want balance and don't want one class to be overpowered, it's not right to say they should be weak or underpowered either, and that's the message i'm getting from a lot of this.

[Kyomaa]

I have a feeling English is not your native language. Feel free to try again.

Now who's making it personal? :P Had to point that out. Sorry.
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Anyway, not that anyones gives a shit, but my opinion is the Medic is a lil OP atm. Sure you can make your MP5 as strong as a Damage +4 Mp5, I'm fine with that. Really, I understand you can only use 1 Wep effectively because you don't get resupply. But you should understand where the rest of us are coming from.

Damage +4 MP5 = Not infinite
Inf Medic Gun with ECW > Damage +4 and is Infi.

I have to spend points in Ammo Bonus, and Resupply to be able to shoot my Mp5 for more than 15 seconds a wave, and you guys can sit there and shoot it forever and heal yourself with it, while also having the same killing power. For what cost? You find a ECW. So finding a ECW > spending 200 pts in Ammo Bonus, and buying 4 levels of resupply?

Also, I don't see where you guys get off saying ECW are Rare enough to be considered "unheard of". I think this is just a point of saying, you hide in a corner and never venture out into the field to use that ungodly DR you have. I was on my level 60 Medic, and could easily get 2 a map. EASILY. The difference is, I don't sit in a hidey hole and shoot monsters from afar. I am used to playing WM, so I get out on the field and dodge hits and kill monsters in close range, so of course I get to see all the drops and I get ECW substantially easier than you. That shouldn't be a legit point to make in an argument of balance. This argument atm has too many variables.

The initial concern was Medic Wep with ECW > Damage +4. So let's take a look at that first before we start bringing other factors in.

Medic Wep scales to 100 with ECW, and has an unlimited supply of ammo, and also heals the player, and the players team mates.
Damage +4 scales to 80, has a limited supply of ammo, and hurts the player substantially when taking a hit from your own shots.

So right there, the Medic Wep HAS THE POTENTIAL to be more powerful than the Damage +4. Seems a bit unfair at this point. Let's look at the next point.

Medic Wep = Very easily obtainable through the cost of 10 Adren with a Artifact which has unlimited uses.
Damage +4 (to a WM) = Very hard to obtain through self sufficient means, even more difficult now thanks to the MP5 bug. (I've several times spawned with a Damage -1 even though I have Loaded Weapons 5 which costs quite a few points to be "Not working correctly")

So with this 2nd point, it further sets the scales in the balance of the Medic.

Now let's look at the stats of both Classes (Damage Bonus vs Damage Bonus + Adv Damage Bonus)

Now, as I understand this the cap on Damage Bonus is in fact 290, we can all agree on that. So the question here is Adv. Damage Bonus, it says that each level adds 1% CUMULATIVE Damage Bonus, to me that means you add 1% more each level to your total DB.

Medic: 290/2 = % (145%)
WM: 290+(290 x .1)/2 = % (159.5%)

Now this gives WM a extra 14.5% Damage Increase in their favor.

Which brings me to our "Perfect World" view.

Medic with maxed Medic MP5 = 100% Weapon Damage + 145% damage through skills Also, Inf Ammo and the ability to Heal.
WM with Damage +4 MP5 = 80% Weapon Damage + 159.5% damage through skills. Also, limited ammo and no ability to Heal.

Now it's up to you to assign your own "weight" to the Inf Ammo/Healing, but from my stand point Medic comes out much higher than WM when it comes to this specific comparison.

Now we can take into effect the Vamp vs Adv DR and such like that, but that's a whole different point entirely. My point here is that a Medic can achieve this power substantially easier than a WM can. IE: Finding ECW*x vs Gaining x amount of levels for Ammo Bonus and Resupply + the rarity of the Damage +4 gun in general.

10 Adren + some luck VS gaining x number of levels which can be variably difficult depending at which point you decide to start putting points into Ammo Bonus and Resupply.

Anyway, I know this won't matter to most of you guys, but I wanted to post it anyway. Wail if the values are incorrect forgive me for I have not studied the code like you, so I don't know it in and out. I was just going off the mathematics that, I as a player see from the information provided to me by the Level Menu and description of abilities.