Lets talk Health Care/Why we are going to kill old people.

[Savage]

I personally think they should do away with all insurance and we should ALL pay out of pocket, I also think everybody at the FDA and the FCC should be lined up in an orderly fashion and executed but anyways, let doctors compete for patients which would lower costs but since that wont happen this is the next best thing.

[DW_ACY]

Okay from the History department... We screwed up when we let lobbyist put money towards the campaigns. We went from we the people to we the corporation, they now run and dictate everything. Since they are about profit and not the well being of people. I can't say I agree with socialized health care but I sure as hell can't agree with $800 dollar a month premiums and that does not include dental or sight. Those are and additional $300 a month. That people is more than my mortgage. So what's the answer...I don't know but when was it mandatory for corp and businesses to make 300% and 400% profit?

They want to protect those profit margins and are willing to toss out those who helped them make them to keep them.

[Savage]

Okay from the History department... We screwed up when we let lobbyist put money towards the campaigns. We went from we the people to we the corporation, they now run and dictate everything. Since they are about profit and not the well being of people. I can't say I agree with socialized health care but I sure as hell can't agree with $800 dollar a month premiums and that does not include dental or sight. Those are and additional $300 a month. That people is more than my mortgage. So what's the answer...I don't know but when was it mandatory for corp and businesses to make 300% and 400% profit?

They want to protect those profit margins and are willing to toss out those who helped them make them to keep them.

Amen Acy!

This country went to shit when we decided to put a single bank in charge of our currency. The Federal Reserve Bank isn't any more federal the FedEx. Then they take away the gold standard pretty much making all our money counterfeit and worthless and our moneys value is determined by the money before it and what is in circulation and we keep pumping out more of it essentially being a hidden tax on the people. Look it is all going to collapse soon anyway so it really doesn't matter what we do but I need these teeth pulled and my asshole poked and prodded so a doctor can check my prostate so screw it, give me coverage. Mark my words, this country will split and civil war will become of it because states and the people are tired of getting ripped off by the Government. We are headed to disaster so get ready. They take over education so now we are all stupid and when they take over health care, it will suck too, but at least we got something!

... And don't forget, you can keep what you got now. This bill only gives sucky coverage to those whom don't have anything at all... Understand people? You keepy and I, with nothing, getty... you keepy, I getty!

[DW_Bomzin]

Even if we had another civil war I don't think most would know what they were fighting for. Just the mere fact they got to kill a liberal would make some happy .

Doing away with the gold standard was probably a must . I think Acy is on the right track with alot that ails us.

[Savage]

I agree with Acy, I'm just trying to make the point that nobody loses anything, some people just gain something shitty when they had absolutely nothing. I edited what I wrote above or added...

[DW_Mobius]

I don't know but when was it mandatory for corp and businesses to make 300% and 400% profit?

In 1970, CEO salary and bonus packages were typically about $700,000 - 25 times the average production worker salary; by 2000, CEO salaries had jumped to almost $2.2 million on average, 90 times the average salary of a worker, according to a 2004 study on CEO pay by Kevin J. Murphy and Jan Zabojnik. Toss in stock options and other benefits, and the salary of a CEO is nearly 500 times the average worker salary

[Savage]

Yea and it is sad. The rich will be taxed to give people whom don't have insurance, health care and they don't like that idea, that is why they put false information out there about this bill. As for the Government "protecting us"... yea, they have done a fine job so far. 3,000 people get blown up and they lie about the cause and then they send a bunch of our children to die for oil. Nice job "protecting us." Protecting their investments is more like it. Even if that is the case, giving people health care that don't have it fits under "protecting us" when we would otherwise die of some ailment. Once again, with this bill you keep your insurance if you already have decent insurance, but the people who don't and the people who are sick but can't afford treatment get a chance to get some help for goodness sake. How can you say "no" to so many people who are suffering and dieing. I thought I was a cold hard SOB but for anyone to say no to this bill... Well... Don't let the drama and scare tactics cloud your judgement. While not the greatest idea, this bill is the best we got at the moment while so many families can't afford health care. Children, women, and many others. Listen to your heart and ask yourself can you really say no to this bill? Maybe you could... because that would be easy to do from your cubicle isolated from the rest of the world. Now ask yourself, could you walk up to every man, woman, and child that are sick and suffering and actually look them in the eye and say "no, you can't have health care." The woman tears up and says "But what about my family, my child?" Can you honestly sit there and tell them "Well, I don't think it is a good idea. Maybe something better will come along later." ...Could you? Because that is exactly what you're doing with the only difference being you are punching a card from the safety of your cubicle the government provides you, and saying screw the poor, let 'em die, this is america where people take care of themselves... Nice! I don't know man, I couldn't live with myself. Actually yes I could but then again, I am a cold hard SOB. I have also seen many without insurance, I have passed the football with them, and I have lived long enough so far to watch them die at a very young age because they didn't have health coverage. They couldn't catch the cancer soon enough or get the medication they really needed because it was to expensive. I have let one of my teeth literally rot out of my head because I needed to put food on the table instead. I had a choice... A months worth of food or a months worth of medication. I decided to eat. This goes on everyday. It may be shit coverage but it is something.

[DW_Damaged]

Once again, with this bill you keep your insurance if you already have decent insurance,

Uhh I think you really need to read the Bill Savage because you are wrong.

Freedom to keep your existing plan

This is the freedom that the President keeps emphasizing. Yet the bills appear to say otherwise. It's worth diving into the weeds -- the territory where most pundits and politicians don't seem to have ventured.

The legislation divides the insured into two main groups, and those two groups are treated differently with respect to their current plans. The first are employees covered by the Employee Retirement Security Act of 1974. ERISA regulates companies that are self-insured, meaning they pay claims out of their cash flow, and don't have real insurance. Those are the GEs (GE, Fortune 500) and Time Warners (TWX, Fortune 500) and most other big companies.

The House bill states that employees covered by ERISA plans are "grandfathered." Under ERISA, the plans can do pretty much what they want -- they're exempt from standard packages and community rating and can reward employees for healthy lifestyles even in restrictive states.

But read on.

The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the "qualified" policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we've already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, "keeping your own plan" has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange. As we'll see, it could happen a lot earlier.

The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges.

The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months

I fall under the 2nd option and every year we make changes so that means I get to keep my current insurance for 1 year.

Doesnt sound to me like I get to keep the insurance I'm happy with Savage.

[DW_Damaged]

Savage,

I agree we need to change the way health care works. Part of the problem is people like me who have great insurance but go to the doctor or hospital for something minor and they do every test under the sun and charge the insurance company way to much money while people who have limited or no insurance do not get the same treatment. I just don’t think that government run health care is the answer. It breaks my heart when someone regardless if they are a child, woman, man, young or old are turned down medical treatment while those who have insurance get more than what they really need. EVERYONE should have equal care regardless of who they are or what they have. I would like to see a panel of independent medical experts come up with a plan that would include coverage for everyone without reinventing the wheel. Make change Yes, Provide everyone with healthcare Yes, Change everything we have and put it into our governments hands I just think is wrong.

Again I don’t have the answers and I know people are suffering but we need to really look at this and make a decision that won’t come back to haunt us in the long run.

This is my last post on the topic and truly hope that in the end everyone in this country gets the health care they deserve.

[DW_Bomzin]

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” – Thomas Jefferson

Maybe all those in favor of Socialized Healthcare should read that one. Ronald Reagan, while not a founding father, put it this way, “Nations crumble from within when the citizenry asks of government those things which the citizenry might better provide for itself.” What a brilliant understanding of the role of government and human nature.

Oh comon Damage don't go away , lets see if we can suck a couple more people into this debate .

I thought long and hard about these two quotes both good but nothing to defend not doing something drastic .

Per Thomas Jeffersons quote . The problem is not doing health care the problem is having corp. america decide what it is going to look like . We need to take the big $$ out of Washington so our leaders can make decisions for the people .

Maybe all those in favor of Socialized Healthcare should read that one. Ronald Reagan, while not a founding father, put it this way, “Nations crumble from within when the citizenry asks of government those things which the citizenry might better provide for itself.” What a brilliant understanding of the role of government and human nature.

As for Regan's quote . The people are not and cannot provide for themselves at this point and it's getting worse by the day .

Also if we follow this and the general thoughts . We have private school systems that work better then state sponsored , Do away with government schools ? We have fedex that makes money delivering mail while our postal service looses money , do away with the postal service ? Don't even get me started with government run golf courses . The list is long of things the government does for us that the private sector does better. Hell even our private army's kill better then regular militia and are much more feared .

The government does alot for us and the more I think about blanket statements like that they sound good on the surface until you really start to think about it . Just how far do we run with a statement like that ?