Lets talk Health Care/Why we are going to kill old people.

[DW_Bomzin]

Most of the polls show an 80-20 divide. When did we start forcing the majority to the will of the minority?

Um I don't know were you got those numbers from . The overwhelming majority voted for a change in the health care policies .

We have had corp America pumping over a Million dollars a day into fighting this thing , that is why it is so hard to get to the truth , let alone anything done.

If you have HBO be sure to check out Bill Mahers interview with Bill Moyers . If you don't you can read the transcripts here . http://boards.hbo.com/topic/Maher-Membe ... 2000008357

They touched on alot that has been stated over the past couple threads.

Also "bob" is not the standard and I don't buy that Americans without health insurance are happy they don't have it . Your going to have a hard time with that fact .

So since we already pay for their housing and SS, we should buy them a steak diner too right?

You left out pay for their medical .

I can't find your polling numbers either , from Time-CNN more right then left I got this .

As the debate over healthcare reform in Congress continues, a new Time Magazine Poll finds that most Americans (55%) support a major reform of the healthcare system over making just minor adjustments (43%).
http://www.srbi.com/MostAmericansEagerf ... eform.html

Also

Despite this, more Americans trust President Obama (47%) to develop the new healthcare legislation than Republicans in Congress (32%). Among key Independents, Obama is favored but by a slim margin 39% to 32% over Republicans in Congress. President Obama's strongest support comes from...

* Democrats - 84%
* American's without health coverage - 63%
* Unemployed - 56%
* Part-time workers - 53%


Another positive sign for Obama is that almost seven in ten (69%) Americans believe it is important to them that the President and Congress pass a major healthcare reform bill in the next few months. President Obama should use the popular support for major health reform and the trust most Americans have in him to his advantage.

[DW_Damaged]

Poll finds that most Americans (55%) support a major reform of the healthcare system

Does it say they support Government health care or just reform. I agree we need reform but I am against Government run health care.

Ok I read that 56% supports a government sponsored public health insurance option to compete with private
health insurance plans? BUT that is not what is being pushed through in the health care reform.

Lets go back to one of my other post on what the Government health care reform will do to those who have insurance.

The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the "qualified" policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we've already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, "keeping your own plan" has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange. As we'll see, it could happen a lot earlier.

The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges.

The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months

This means I lose my current insurance and have to take the governments health plan. I don't see where private insurance will still be an option.

Hmmm why is it that only 64% of the uninsured support this.

And 86% of the Republicans think it will make everything more complicated and 76% of the Independents think it will be more complicated and 43% of Democrats think it will be more complicated. For a total of 65% think it will make it more complicated. While only 29% think it will be simpler.

If the majority of people think it will be more complicated why are we even having this conversation?

[DW_Bomzin]

If the majority of people think it will be more complicated why are we even having this conversation?

Because we are the only Industrialize country that doesn't take care of it's own and when we have groups like Remote Area Medical coming to LA when they should be out in the outbacks of Africa somewhere , doesn't that send up some sort of a flag ?

[DW_Damaged]

Because we are the only Industrialize country that doesn't take care of it's own and when we have groups like Remote Area Medical coming to LA when they should be out in the outbacks of Africa somewhere , doesn't that send up some sort of a flag ?

Then call it Lets take care of our own and make sure the legal citizens of this country who do not have health care are able to afford it. Don't force something on the majority who don't want it. I read somewhere that if you took all of the illegal aliens in this country and those who can afford health care but choose not to buy that the 40 million plus uninsured would actually be somewhere around 10-15 million people which is far less than in the 70's and 80's and far less than what the government wants us to believe.

Also look how bad the government takes care of the War veterans in VA hospitals. Is that the kind of care your looking for.

Health care for illegal immigrants costs Americans at least $1 billion each year, not including health costs for children and the elderly.”

“Did you know that since the early 1990s, the percentage of uninsured Americans has not experienced much change? In 1996, the 16.2 percent of Americans where unemployed, compared to 15.8 percent in 2006.

“What many overlook when they see the information presented in this fashion is that during that decade long gap, America faced an increase of 3.5 million in the number of uninsured individuals. This increase occurred at the same time that the number of insured Americans increased by 25 million and the percentage of uninsured Americans dropped by 0.4 percent. The effects of population and immigration growth have become a major factor in the number of uninsured individuals in America.”

The data provided on the uninsured varies depending on the source – and most sources have their own agenda in the issue. That can’t be overlooked. So we cannot blindly accept the information being spoon-fed to us by the White House and Congress as they push for greater government control over our lives. Once the bill is passed, it’s too late for second thoughts.

In the indelible words of Ronald Reagan –

“No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government program is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!”

[DW_Damaged]

It's reported that 45.7 million people do not have health care. Well lets take a look at some numbers shall we.

17.5 million uninsured make more than $50,000 and can afford insurance but choose not to get it and 9.1 million make over $75,000 a year.
10 million are not legal citizens of this country

That's 17.5 million people out of the 45.7 million who could have insurance bringing the total down to 28.2 million uninsured people now remove the 10 million illegal citizens that can't get insurance anf the total figure drops down to 18.2 million people.

At the bottom of this is says that another 14 million are fully eligible for government assistance through programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP.

So is it possible that the total number could actually be less than 10 million American citizens that are uninsured not the 45.7 the Government is trying to make us believe?



So whats the REAL Figure on the amount of uninsured American citizens in the country?


We may be accustomed to thinking of the uninsured as low-income individuals and struggling families. But the Census Bureau data show that many are relatively affluent. Over 17.5 million -- 38 percent -- of the uninsured make more than $50,000 a year. And 9.1 million have an annual income of over $75,000 a year.

How can this be? In part, it's because a number of financially comfortable young Americans choose not to purchase health insurance. Known in the healthcare trade as the "invincibles" -- because they’re so sure they won't get sick -- these young singles would rather keep their money than shell out for expensive monthly insurance premiums because of the many mandates and regulations place on insurers by the states.

This intentional avoidance of health insurance is quite common. According to the Commonwealth Fund, Americans age 19-29 comprise one of the largest and fastest-growing segments of the uninsured population.

If the fact that over a third of the uninsured are pulling down more than $50,000 a year isn’t shocking enough, how about this: Nearly 10 million uninsured aren't even U.S. citizens!

It's certainly unfortunate that these individuals don't have health insurance, of course. But they can still get free treatment in emergency rooms. And even a fully nationalized healthcare system would be unlikely to provide them with health insurance.

Another 14 million of the uninsured are fully eligible for government assistance through programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP.

[DW_Bomzin]

So is it possible that the total number could actually be less than 10 million American citizens that are uninsured not the 45.7 the Government is trying to make us believe?

10 million , I think we have that many out of work right now don't we ? I really don't know , but seems alittle low . Even with the creativity of Sean Hannity listening to him he only got it down to 20M .

a government program is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!”

That is a nice quote , but Religion would fit better in there.

Here is the biggest problem I face in my little head , I truly believe we are heading down a big problematic road with the health industry if left unchecked . I don't necessarily believe that a goverment run institution would be the best idea , but I also don't think the republicans are going to do anything about it . The more I watch and read the more I doubt the democrats are going to do the right thing , Read that transcript . The pharmaceutical company already has legislation going into this so we can't import cheaper medication! So much for free market competition .

So rather then support the do nothing approach I would rather support a do something and work out the kinks down the road.

All in all I think we need to get the money out of politics so the smart people that are elected to power can actually do their job, but I don't see that happening either.

I have still yet to find a old person that hates their medicare ...

[DW_Bomzin]

It's reported that 45.7 million people do not have health care. Well lets take a look at some numbers shall we.

I went looking that 45.7 million looks like just Americans , no need to subtract illegals . Also how many under-insured peeps do we have that keep going into bankruptcy because of it .

[DW_Damaged]

The truth behind the Census Bureau’s insurance figure

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini ... igure.html

[DW_SupernovA]

As far as bob goes and those types most you already do pay for cause they get on SS or some other type of program or you pay through your premiums when they show up in the emergency room and can't be turned away. You already do pay for them . Either that or they land themselves in jail and not only do you end up paying for their health care but there housing as well .

so, just because i'm already paying for them means i should have to and be okay with paying even MORE for them? two wrongs don't make a right. quite frankly, i'd much rather be paying for the crackhead, serial killing, troublemaking type to be in prison than on the streets causing more problems AND getting free healthcare while they're at it. maybe we should start buying their drugs and weapons too? and you don't just get social security by putting on a smile, waltzing in, and asking for it. just because "bob" is too lazy to get a job, doesn't mean he's going to get social security. you have to put something in to get something out. in fact, i know it's difficult to get social security or disability because i have a family member who has tried to get it because he has a back injury (of course, he COULD have put out the effort to find himself a job and get health insurance prior to the injury so that it wouldn't be an issue, but that's a very long story).

[DW_Bomzin]

so, just because i'm already paying for them means i should have to and be okay with paying even MORE for them? two wrongs don't make a right. quite frankly, i'd much rather be paying for the crackhead, serial killing, troublemaking type to be in prison than on the streets causing more problems AND getting free healthcare while they're at it. maybe we should start buying their drugs and weapons too? and you don't just get social security by putting on a smile, waltzing in, and asking for it. just because "bob" is too lazy to get a job, doesn't mean he's going to get social security. you have to put something in to get something out. in fact, i know it's difficult to get social security or disability because i have a family member who has tried to get it because he has a back injury (of course, he COULD have put out the effort to find himself a job and get health insurance prior to the injury so that it wouldn't be an issue, but that's a very long story).

You really don't need to be ok with any of it , the crackhead is in a very small minority. What about all the hard working Americans that simply can't afford it. You talk like every employer provides benefits . Just finding a job does does not equal health insurance. It would be nice but it doesn't .

The truth behind the Census Bureau’s insurance figure

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini ... igure.html

Interesting . No one knows the real number I'm sure , Probably should also take into account the under insured if we are really crunching numbers .

Insurance is great if you work for a big institution that has your back. They find it hard to cancel you. Some of our biggest problems lie with the little guys . Like I said earlier do away with the group programs for institutions and put everyone under equal terms with each insurer. You should belong to the insurance group , not group rates for large corporations. Major flaw in the system right there .

Then call it Lets take care of our own and make sure the legal citizens of this country who do not have health care are able to afford it. Don't force something on the majority who don't want it. I read somewhere that if you took all of the illegal aliens in this country and those who can afford health care but choose not to buy that the 40 million plus uninsured would actually be somewhere around 10-15 million people which is far less than in the 70's and 80's and far less than what the government wants us to believe.

Also look how bad the government takes care of the War veterans in VA hospitals. Is that the kind of care your looking for.

I'm with you on the Damage , if they are really writing that into the bill it's wrong. You like your insurance I see no reason for you not to keep it . They arn't forcing something on the majority . The majority voted for health care reform , one of the platforms of the democratic elections .

Illegal aliens is a whole differant subject , maybe by the "bring it home " , our troops . We could actually police our boarder , but then were going to need some major reforms on the pass's for work visa's . We do need these people we just don't need them sneaking into the country .

Actually I think the VA is coming along , they have had some major improvements since the old days . Like I said before , I have yet to meet a old person that hates their medicare and my dad and my father-in-law are both totally happy with the VA . Yes I would take the kind of care they have in a heart beat .