You've read my thoughs or something?warhead2 wrote:my only concern has not been making it easier but just turning impossible to at least possible. when creature level is so high that you can't even score damage, that imo is too much and a simple cap on them fixes it. a cap that allows you to at least globe (even if barely) with nrg flak is a fine enough cap imo. most level spikes are not so outrageous and you can manage it just fine and globe and etc and i'm okay with that, but i've seen spikes that go so high you can't globe or get damage or anything. this would not only relieve some frustration in the present, but also address the question about future and special situations, which is the main concern of the original thread topic. granted there's still some things i gotta figure out about piercing weapons, but even granted some effectivness with those, i still don't think the game should be stripped down to just that, and that other strategies should be available also even at the highest spike, especially the nrg/globe (notwithstanding the am might be able to vorpal but other's cant use it like him). no i do not agree that it's fine the way it is, but to each his own, and i respect the other opinions. no matter what happens, this is a freaking nice server giving us tons of funs. much thanks to the server creators.
What if there were no low levels on INV?
Here's an idea. We could remove all easy maps from the server then people will remain as a low level for an extended period of time.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.
FFE466
_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.
FFE466
_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
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Seven_of_69
- 1337 Haxor
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:00 pm
Monsters aren't supposed to be easy if there are no low level players alive or in the game. If you want to improve your chances of survival, you can play an AM, roll an energy flak, vorpal shock, and piercing mines/MP5. You can roll all the survival weapons you need. Plus you'll never lose your weapons or globe. That's why I prefer to play my AM on maps like Akbal, Cheapshot's Bloodbath Cavern, Deep Violet, etc.
There are also other options besides piercing such as Hunter and Skaarjbane. Hunter is essentially a piercing weapon against raptors and shrikes specifically. It may not damage other high level monsters much but it'll do loads of damage to the hungry dinos. Skaarjbane is even more versatile since there are more Skaarj creatures. It's basically a Skaarj-specific piercing weapon and will do loads of damage to high level queens, sliths, waillords, and their other Skaarj friends.
FWIW piercing, Hunter, and Skaarjbane weapons do NOT guarantee infinite survival - only the fabled I ALWAYS WIN button can do that - however they will earn XP and do damage to the monsters with every shot.
Don't change the game or it's rules - change how it's played! :sbigsmile:
And +1 to Ant's idea! :sevilgrin:
There are also other options besides piercing such as Hunter and Skaarjbane. Hunter is essentially a piercing weapon against raptors and shrikes specifically. It may not damage other high level monsters much but it'll do loads of damage to the hungry dinos. Skaarjbane is even more versatile since there are more Skaarj creatures. It's basically a Skaarj-specific piercing weapon and will do loads of damage to high level queens, sliths, waillords, and their other Skaarj friends.
FWIW piercing, Hunter, and Skaarjbane weapons do NOT guarantee infinite survival - only the fabled I ALWAYS WIN button can do that - however they will earn XP and do damage to the monsters with every shot.
Don't change the game or it's rules - change how it's played! :sbigsmile:
And +1 to Ant's idea! :sevilgrin:
Sorry 7 we just won't see eye to eye on this and that's okay. i respect you and yes you have very good ideas and provoke me to think. you are obivously are very experienced player and an asset to the community and i have valued your input here, and this has been helpful to me to hear the things you say. -100 to ant's idea (soooory ant *smiles*). weapons like bane are useless, totally useless, if monster level is so high you can't even score damage. you can't really switch to AM mid game, and saying the other classes aren't any good so just use am to begin with isn't such a great idea either. it's all about keeping balance and that just isn't balanced. so who said anything about winning or easy? i sure didn't! everybody seems to want to boil it down to that but all i ever asked for was a chance. losing isn't what bothers me, it's having an inventory of sterile weapons. heck i like to lose, it just stokes me to do better next time! all i'm asking for is some balance in the higher level spikes. you say it is, i say it isn't, so o well. i've tried my best to state my case clearly so i've done my duty to the community.
on another note, i notice a major improvement was made last night :scool:
As Wail said, piercing has been taken back to the "way it was", and now peircing is only +6 and can use triple with it. that's right, TRIPLE AND PIERCING are good buddies now!! this right here goes so far to putting some much needed balance in this aspect of the game. improving peircing was one of the requests in this thread and now this has been done. Thank you, a big big thank you, for this one. We asked for it, we got it! Thanks! This goes a loooong way in resolving my beefs about the spikes. :cheers:
i agree with Franky when he said piercing sucks. it no longer sucks.
i note the following about piercing:
-as a wm, whenever i tried pulling out a piercing during any level spike, they totally sucked and i had to use something else. i believe there was a glitch in piercing. i know for a fact that the hit sounds changed on a piercing when the level spiked, which is not the advertised behavior for this gun. it may be now that piercing has been reverted, this glitch has been removed and now peircing will have their advertised effectivness on high level monsters. i have not had the chance to do more testing on this and it may be a mute point now. i still will look into it with the new piercing, but will take some time, as the am i am playing right now doesn't have awareness yet. at any rate, with triple, they now have much better effectivness even with any glitches.
-as a wm, i usually am trying to roll a good mp5 as a primary weapon and often i only have one mp5, so if a piercing came up in the roll, guess what? immediate rejection. i can't use the totally sucky piercing as my primary mp5 because it was too wimpy. now that piercing works with triple, it is now an acceptable and desirable primary weapon. one of the issues with restricting strategy to piercing is that you may or may not have it. now the actual chances of a wm actually having a piercing have increased dramatically because now they can actually use it as their primary mp5. this is freaking HUGE.
-because piercing then tended to be a secondary weapon which tended to not be an mp5, this further weakened them, as a piercing mini and etc just isn't as good.
-the plus 10 on the old piercing was mainly useful to the am, but not so much for other classes. sure you can say have an am max it, but honestly people ask, sometimes badger, the am's for all kinds for other requests, and as a wm, maxing a weapon of questionale use just wasn't on my list of most important things to ask an am for. anything an am has to do anyway will at least restrict it's chances of being used by other classes. now the peircing is much more balanced for all the classes. thanks big time for this.
-now with triple, piercing can actually become a primary attack strategy during level spikes. being able to better kill them helps the adrenaline which actually gives you some globing opportuniity without using nrg. all i've ever heard is "survival strategy". now all classes actually have some kind of decent attack strategy even during a nastily high spike! saying that, i should also mention that i don't regard camping and mine spamming any decent strategy at all. camping is generally frowned on in ut but is a neccesary evil in this particular game. camping is sometimes fun and mine spamming is always fun but i certainly would not want the game reduced to that kind of thing. with the new piercing, we actually have a decent cross class attack strategy in place. i am very happy about this, i hope the new piercing is here to stay.
-because now the piercing is generally useful for all situations, this will dramaitcally increase the likely hood that all classes will have one. myself, i usually had more important things to roll, given my wm's limited rolling ability, but now i can take the piercing when i roll it, regardless of what weapon i am rolling. as a wm my access to mwm is limited so with what opportunity i have, i am usually not trying to roll the piercing. asking an am has the same issue: am's have limited request bandwith, so i am usually gonna use that precious resource to ask for something more important on my wish list. now piercing being a primary desirable weapon for gneral use, and not just for the rainy day of the level spike, will dramitcally increase the chances of it being in people's inventory, will gives more balance to this game. again, this is huge.
i will still argue that nrg should be able to make some sort of headway during even the highest spike. if the game is supposed to be balanced then i having trouble seeing how neutering most of the weapons is called balance. however, having this new piercing will go a long way. thanks big time for this this is huuuuge and a good thing!!!! :scool: :cheers:
on another note, i notice a major improvement was made last night :scool:
As Wail said, piercing has been taken back to the "way it was", and now peircing is only +6 and can use triple with it. that's right, TRIPLE AND PIERCING are good buddies now!! this right here goes so far to putting some much needed balance in this aspect of the game. improving peircing was one of the requests in this thread and now this has been done. Thank you, a big big thank you, for this one. We asked for it, we got it! Thanks! This goes a loooong way in resolving my beefs about the spikes. :cheers:
i agree with Franky when he said piercing sucks. it no longer sucks.
i note the following about piercing:
-as a wm, whenever i tried pulling out a piercing during any level spike, they totally sucked and i had to use something else. i believe there was a glitch in piercing. i know for a fact that the hit sounds changed on a piercing when the level spiked, which is not the advertised behavior for this gun. it may be now that piercing has been reverted, this glitch has been removed and now peircing will have their advertised effectivness on high level monsters. i have not had the chance to do more testing on this and it may be a mute point now. i still will look into it with the new piercing, but will take some time, as the am i am playing right now doesn't have awareness yet. at any rate, with triple, they now have much better effectivness even with any glitches.
-as a wm, i usually am trying to roll a good mp5 as a primary weapon and often i only have one mp5, so if a piercing came up in the roll, guess what? immediate rejection. i can't use the totally sucky piercing as my primary mp5 because it was too wimpy. now that piercing works with triple, it is now an acceptable and desirable primary weapon. one of the issues with restricting strategy to piercing is that you may or may not have it. now the actual chances of a wm actually having a piercing have increased dramatically because now they can actually use it as their primary mp5. this is freaking HUGE.
-because piercing then tended to be a secondary weapon which tended to not be an mp5, this further weakened them, as a piercing mini and etc just isn't as good.
-the plus 10 on the old piercing was mainly useful to the am, but not so much for other classes. sure you can say have an am max it, but honestly people ask, sometimes badger, the am's for all kinds for other requests, and as a wm, maxing a weapon of questionale use just wasn't on my list of most important things to ask an am for. anything an am has to do anyway will at least restrict it's chances of being used by other classes. now the peircing is much more balanced for all the classes. thanks big time for this.
-now with triple, piercing can actually become a primary attack strategy during level spikes. being able to better kill them helps the adrenaline which actually gives you some globing opportuniity without using nrg. all i've ever heard is "survival strategy". now all classes actually have some kind of decent attack strategy even during a nastily high spike! saying that, i should also mention that i don't regard camping and mine spamming any decent strategy at all. camping is generally frowned on in ut but is a neccesary evil in this particular game. camping is sometimes fun and mine spamming is always fun but i certainly would not want the game reduced to that kind of thing. with the new piercing, we actually have a decent cross class attack strategy in place. i am very happy about this, i hope the new piercing is here to stay.
-because now the piercing is generally useful for all situations, this will dramaitcally increase the likely hood that all classes will have one. myself, i usually had more important things to roll, given my wm's limited rolling ability, but now i can take the piercing when i roll it, regardless of what weapon i am rolling. as a wm my access to mwm is limited so with what opportunity i have, i am usually not trying to roll the piercing. asking an am has the same issue: am's have limited request bandwith, so i am usually gonna use that precious resource to ask for something more important on my wish list. now piercing being a primary desirable weapon for gneral use, and not just for the rainy day of the level spike, will dramitcally increase the chances of it being in people's inventory, will gives more balance to this game. again, this is huge.
i will still argue that nrg should be able to make some sort of headway during even the highest spike. if the game is supposed to be balanced then i having trouble seeing how neutering most of the weapons is called balance. however, having this new piercing will go a long way. thanks big time for this this is huuuuge and a good thing!!!! :scool: :cheers:
Warning: Incoming Warhead!!
Wanted on 1000 planets for mass destruction of alien life forms!
Wanted on 1000 planets for mass destruction of alien life forms!
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jesuslovesmic
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:59 am
i like ur post and good to here about piercing +triple
as i read the end i dont think making energy stronger vs spikes, cuz then it would be unreal strength for when there is no spikes....course i would like to see the chance of energy rolling increase...but thats on my wishlist...lol
great topic thread, really enjoyed it
as i read the end i dont think making energy stronger vs spikes, cuz then it would be unreal strength for when there is no spikes....course i would like to see the chance of energy rolling increase...but thats on my wishlist...lol
great topic thread, really enjoyed it
As bizarre as it sounds ... I quite like it with no low level players. Some of my best fighting moments have been when there were only about 3 players on, including myself. I have to say one thing, surely if the server has lost its influx of low level players, then the player base is just going to stagnate. Therefore, no matter what is done people will slowly leave due to monotony. The question shouldn't be what to do when there are no low level players left, it should be how are we going to keep low level players playing?
To bring about the end you have to start at the beginning.
I quite hunger for Ant Idea. Let do it.
I mean let remove all easy maps from the server for a certain period. Like one or two months and we see how it play. And how many waves we could survive on average basis. And how long the low levels especially the newbies would stay.
It fun to get owned. Feel that panic of death rush.
:sclapping:
I wonder whether my vote on Ant suggestion would be carry out.
But let try it.
Thanks.
I mean let remove all easy maps from the server for a certain period. Like one or two months and we see how it play. And how many waves we could survive on average basis. And how long the low levels especially the newbies would stay.
It fun to get owned. Feel that panic of death rush.
:sclapping:
I wonder whether my vote on Ant suggestion would be carry out.
But let try it.
Thanks.
[font=fantasy]A true weapons master.[/font]
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Seven_of_69
- 1337 Haxor
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:00 pm
Thanks and I appreciate your feedback. I would like to see eye to eye on piercing but I insist that it worked fine for me. I wish I had empirical evidence, basically an extension of the in-game stats, to show not just how many monsters were killed with each weapon but also the weapon's magic type and monster level. But all I have are personal anecdotes like getting Holy Shard kills on wave 13 with piercing MP5+10 against level 520 monsters. That simply shouldn't be possible - unless piercing works. :sspeechless:warhead2 wrote:Sorry 7 we just won't see eye to eye on this and that's okay. i respect you and yes you have very good ideas and provoke me to think. you are obivously are very experienced player and an asset to the community and i have valued your input here, and this has been helpful to me to hear the things you say.
I disagree. :stongue: I spent the last two nights verifying that what I said was accurate and I was still able to damage and kill the appropriate monsters with Skaarjbane and Hunter weapons.warhead2 wrote:weapons like bane are useless, totally useless, if monster level is so high you can't even score damage.
No, switching mid game isn't an option. My comment was my preference to play certain maps as AM from a map's beginning or earlier waves. Joining as an AM halfway thru a game can be disasterous.topic.html?f=11&t=761&p=32631#p32631warhead2 wrote:you can't really switch to AM mid game, and saying the other classes aren't any good so just use am to begin with isn't such a great idea either.
The very nature of the game is unbalanced, otherwise there would be only one class and one player level. Maybe someone could make a non-RPG variant like that. Oh wait, it comes built into UT2k4. :sdoh: :sgiggle:warhead2 wrote:it's all about keeping balance and that just isn't balanced.
WMs can do things AMs and Medics can't. Medics can do things WMs and AMs can't. AMs can do things WMs and Medics can't. IMO playing an AM is simply the best chance of survival when the monsters are high levels.
Fair enough though it was a general comment and not directed towards you. :ssmile:warhead2 wrote:so who said anything about winning or easy? i sure didn't!
I'm at a huge loss here because IMO piercing was working just fine (as I indicated with anecdotes) and you (and apparently Franky) said it sucked. With the recent update, now that the "new" piercing (isn't it just the old one brought back?) is here, you love it but I don't. And if you ask Wail, isn't there absolutely no difference between the old-old (1-6) and the new-now-old (1-10) (other than being able to triple it or not)? Or have the formulas and code actually changed? Case in point: last night I seemed to be doing absolutely no damage to level 335+ monsters with (maxed) Piercing Rockets+6 yet in the past I've used (maxed) Piercing Rockets+10 and done loads of damage. I'd swear that last night I had plain rox, they did almost no damage.warhead2 wrote:on another note, i notice a major improvement was made last night :scool:
As Wail said, piercing has been taken back to the "way it was", and now peircing is only +6 and can use triple with it. that's right, TRIPLE AND PIERCING are good buddies now!! this right here goes so far to putting some much needed balance in this aspect of the game. improving peircing was one of the requests in this thread and now this has been done. Thank you, a big big thank you, for this one. We asked for it, we got it! Thanks! This goes a loooong way in resolving my beefs about the spikes. :cheers:
i agree with Franky when he said piercing sucks. it no longer sucks.
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Seven_of_69
- 1337 Haxor
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:00 pm
(continued}
Also new players don't seem to understand that it takes HUGE amounts of adren to fulfill their requests: 150 to max theirs and 650 if I've already over-maxed my own.
While the hit sound does change, to me it seems to be more a factor of the monsters' level, not necessarily the damage done. I don't base my results entirely on it. E.g. when using 1-10 piercing on 300+ level monsters, the hit sound was a high pitch yet the awareness meter clearly indicated that monsters' health was dropping quickly, the XP meter went up continually, and my score went up a lot.warhead2 wrote:-as a wm, whenever i tried pulling out a piercing during any level spike, they totally sucked and i had to use something else. i believe there was a glitch in piercing. i know for a fact that the hit sounds changed on a piercing when the level spiked, which is not the advertised behavior for this gun. it may be now that piercing has been reverted, this glitch has been removed and now peircing will have their advertised effectivness on high level monsters. i have not had the chance to do more testing on this and it may be a mute point now. i still will look into it with the new piercing, but will take some time, as the am i am playing right now doesn't have awareness yet. at any rate, with triple, they now have much better effectivness even with any glitches.
Again, I'm at a loss to understand this. I used the 1-10 piercing MP5, link, etc. for months and it worked just fine.warhead2 wrote:-as a wm, i usually am trying to roll a good mp5 as a primary weapon and often i only have one mp5, so if a piercing came up in the roll, guess what? immediate rejection. i can't use the totally sucky piercing as my primary mp5 because it was too wimpy. now that piercing works with triple, it is now an acceptable and desirable primary weapon. one of the issues with restricting strategy to piercing is that you may or may not have it. now the actual chances of a wm actually having a piercing have increased dramatically because now they can actually use it as their primary mp5. this is freaking HUGE.
Old or new, I agree that piercing mini wasn't/isn't very good. However I had very good results with piercing mines, MP5, link, flak, shock, and rox.warhead2 wrote:-because piercing then tended to be a secondary weapon which tended to not be an mp5, this further weakened them, as a piercing mini and etc just isn't as good.
AMs being badgered is a topic in itself. :sbigsmile: The mushroom throwing brocks are often the least badgering nuisance. :sgiggle: In short, I "make" weapons for others only if I happen to roll one in the course of rolling my own. I max weapons if I can afford the adren, if it's not too late in the game, etc. Also players with ghost, recall, etc. are more likely to have their requests answered. Hard working medics who need copies of energy flak or mines will get copies every wave if they die but lazy careless WMs, bah, they had their chance and isn't it about the time they got recall? :sdull:warhead2 wrote:-the plus 10 on the old piercing was mainly useful to the am, but not so much for other classes. sure you can say have an am max it, but honestly people ask, sometimes badger, the am's for all kinds for other requests, and as a wm, maxing a weapon of questionale use just wasn't on my list of most important things to ask an am for. anything an am has to do anyway will at least restrict it's chances of being used by other classes. now the peircing is much more balanced for all the classes. thanks big time for this.
Also new players don't seem to understand that it takes HUGE amounts of adren to fulfill their requests: 150 to max theirs and 650 if I've already over-maxed my own.
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DW_WailofSuicide
- DW Clan Member
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am
Let me know if I should look into this. The functionality between the two is a tiny bit different, but there really should not be any practical difference between the two as far as the Piercing effect itself.Seven_of_69 wrote:I'm at a huge loss here because IMO piercing was working just fine (as I indicated with anecdotes) and you (and apparently Franky) said it sucked. With the recent update, now that the "new" piercing (isn't it just the old one brought back?) is here, you love it but I don't. And if you ask Wail, isn't there absolutely no difference between the old-old (1-6) and the new-now-old (1-10) (other than being able to triple it or not)? Or have the formulas and code actually changed? Case in point: last night I seemed to be doing absolutely no damage to level 335+ monsters with (maxed) Piercing Rockets+6 yet in the past I've used (maxed) Piercing Rockets+10 and done loads of damage. I'd swear that last night I had plain rox, they did almost no damage.