A Proposition for DM-TrainStation

[DW_Ant]

To be honest I think you should stop for a moment and think about the others who do like it. Yes they may want the 'free exp' but if you took out every map like this you would lose a portion of your player base.

Yes, and that's why those maps are still there :thumbright:

[Jon!]

I have an idea for stopping the mine spam in the hide. Put some sort of see-through screen like in the second part of the secret in DM-WatchYourBack, coming down from the ceiling and another jutting out from the floor to the height of the old 'wall', then in the middle make a space big enough for people to put trans in and land in, but make it a 5 sec 'no camp zone' which would dump you back below. Then people can't stand there and camp. They can stand on the ledge, exposed, but it would be much harder as direct fire would hit fast and titan rocks would totally batter people off it. I for one hate that hide and try to duke it out in one of the wrecked-car piles in the upper waves.

[Dynadin]

Ah. I am leaving the box at the top, while utterly redesigned to actually mean something, a camp zone ... all the secrets have anti camp zones in. You got 15 seconds before you have to say goodbye safety and hello pain :sgiggle: Also you have to beware the trains now ... being hit by a moving train is now a one way ticket to deathville.

[DW_WailofSuicide]

I think my main problem with the map is specifically how it's entirely about abusing the Mine Layer / indirect fire, and it's only got one location to "play" from unless you're high enough to go out there and fight on the floor.
I actually do prefer The End over TrainStation, because at least on TheEnd it's not entirely about tossing mines out of a window. Even maps like Bunker, Nightwolf Testing Facility, or Nightwolf Almost Contained - The same basic setup for each of these maps, and they're pretty nooby friendly, but they're not entirely boring -- Bunker has both sides and the middle bunker to fight from, Testing and Contained both have 2 main sides to fight from and at least one other side area you can try to use. All of them could be pretty easily improved, and even made "more" nooby friendly (for people who want to play the game and not just toggle-on with minelayers) while improving them both aesthetically and gameplay wise. I mean, 3 Triangles, Fortress of War, etc etc. These don't have to be bad maps, and they're reasonably easy and popular.

[@nt]

I hate maps like Trainstation. I'd love to see a trainstation where you need to acutally have skill intead of spamming spider mines.

[Dynadin]

I think my main problem with the map is specifically how it's entirely about abusing the Mine Layer / indirect fire, and it's only got one location to "play" from unless you're high enough to go out there and fight on the floor.
I actually do prefer The End over TrainStation, because at least on TheEnd it's not entirely about tossing mines out of a window. Even maps like Bunker, Nightwolf Testing Facility, or Nightwolf Almost Contained - The same basic setup for each of these maps, and they're pretty nooby friendly, but they're not entirely boring -- Bunker has both sides and the middle bunker to fight from, Testing and Contained both have 2 main sides to fight from and at least one other side area you can try to use. All of them could be pretty easily improved, and even made "more" nooby friendly (for people who want to play the game and not just toggle-on with minelayers) while improving them both aesthetically and gameplay wise. I mean, 3 Triangles, Fortress of War, etc etc. These don't have to be bad maps, and they're reasonably easy and popular.

I understand where you are coming from, I don't like trainstation myself. But you are missing the point that it is neither you nor my opinion that matters here, it is the general gaming communbity. People like how it is at the moment, so I am endeavouring, and have been asked to, keep it the same as it is now. All I am doing it making it more asthetically pleasing. There is no reason why Renegade cannot do a whole remake of trainstation for the higher levels to play, while this one is just a prettier version of what the lower levels want. Don't forget though that a remake with different gameplay is a different map with the same theme, so calling it TrainStation would be redundant, it would have to be named something else. As an example, it would like me remaking AbsoluteHell to be utterly lower level friendly because they want it to be, and still calling it AbsoluteHell, it wouldn't be right.

[@nt]

I think my main problem with the map is specifically how it's entirely about abusing the Mine Layer / indirect fire, and it's only got one location to "play" from unless you're high enough to go out there and fight on the floor.
I actually do prefer The End over TrainStation, because at least on TheEnd it's not entirely about tossing mines out of a window. Even maps like Bunker, Nightwolf Testing Facility, or Nightwolf Almost Contained - The same basic setup for each of these maps, and they're pretty nooby friendly, but they're not entirely boring -- Bunker has both sides and the middle bunker to fight from, Testing and Contained both have 2 main sides to fight from and at least one other side area you can try to use. All of them could be pretty easily improved, and even made "more" nooby friendly (for people who want to play the game and not just toggle-on with minelayers) while improving them both aesthetically and gameplay wise. I mean, 3 Triangles, Fortress of War, etc etc. These don't have to be bad maps, and they're reasonably easy and popular.

The reason DW made these easy maps are for the noobs like me :ssmile: . Without easy maps, it would open a floodgate of rants about how the mosnters are overpowered, they're too weak, and all of that. And, although I hate Trainstation, I still somehow like it as well after all, who doesn't like free exp?

[DW_Ant]

who doesn't like free exp?

Me.

[Seven_of_69]

... not only high levels get an opinion.

:swhew: Thankfully I have a low level medic so therefore I can have low level opinions. I was worried that only high levels could have opinions. :skiss:

I think you should stop for a moment and think about the others who do like it.

And you might want to consider not thinking about what I think or should think. You implicitly suggested that I don't like Train Station but it's conjecture because I did not say that. To be specific, I don't love the map either and I don't prefer it but I don't hate it and certainly didn't say I don't like it.

Off topic, but I feel it's worth saying. Like everyone else I vote for maps which I like. If my voted map wins the vote, often there are numerous comments (and not necessarily from low levels) like "this map sucks" and "this map is not good for low levels" and "omg there's nowhere to hide/no adren piles [sic]" and "who voted this?" etc. For some reason it's easier to type all that in the chat than it is to type "exit" in the console. My map choices are not necessarily because they are challenging but rather because they are rarely played compared to the maps which are over-voted and over-played. Heck, I might even vote for Train Station now and then if it was rarely played and I wanted a change.

Also I am not at all against having easy maps and giving players of all levels options. I just don't favor the abusive/boring maps like "mine spam adren box made in 5 minutes". Then there are some old easy maps which aren't necessarily bad, they're just over-played. Then there are some good new (and newish) maps which aren't too hard nor too easy (Seasons, Time Travel, Storage House, Happy Monster Party, etc.) which are a pleasant change but it takes a while for people to notice that there are alternate choices. Finally there is the map vote lemming factor where once a map gets more than one vote, everyone else votes that map even without regard for which map it is. Sometimes it even happens for harder maps (which is often followed by a slew of the previously listed complaints after the map loads :sgiggle:) but it's mostly for the commonly played ones.

That said, one visual idea for Train Station would be to make non-shoot-thru glass windows on the upper platform so you can at least see what you're spamming. :sgiggle: Smart alec comment aside, I'm serious! It would give the player an overview of what's going on below the platform and the monsters, projectiles, etc. would provide endless free animated eye candy without changing anything (other than adding the window, duh). :ssmile:

... a remake with different gameplay is a different map with the same theme... it would have to be named something else. As an example, it would like me remaking AbsoluteHell to be utterly lower level friendly because they want it to be, and still calling it AbsoluteHell, it wouldn't be right.

You could call the noob-friendly version Absolutely Easy Hell. :srofl: Seriously, it'd be a fun map if you were to make it. :smmm:

who doesn't like free exp?

Me.

Me neither. IMO we should have to shoot monsters for XP even on easy maps. And being a "no free XP" map doesn't mean it can't be easy and fun.

[Dynadin]

:swhew: Thankfully I have a low level medic so therefore I can have low level opinions. I was worried that only high levels could have opinions. :skiss:

I should have added something to it really. You have experience of playing the game like this, knowing the ins and outs. Maps like trainstation give new players a chance to ask questions without worrying overly much about death. Well, those that seem to be allergic to the wiki :ssmile:

Off topic, but I feel it's worth saying. Like everyone else I vote for maps which I like. If my voted map wins the vote, often there are numerous comments (and not necessarily from low levels) like "this map sucks" and "this map is not good for low levels" and "omg there's nowhere to hide/no adren piles [sic]" and "who voted this?" etc. For some reason it's easier to type all that in the chat than it is to type "exit" in the console. My map choices are not necessarily because they are challenging but rather because they are rarely played compared to the maps which are over-voted and over-played. Heck, I might even vote for Train Station now and then if it was rarely played and I wanted a change.

I have to whole heartedly agree to this point. I am always trying to see new maps get played but keep getting stuck on TheEnd, Bunker, Akbal (was fun but now otherplayed) AdaraDam, etc. I am of the opinion that once a map reaches 100 plays it should be removed for a month :sbigsmile:

That said, one visual idea for Train Station would be to make non-shoot-thru glass windows on the upper platform so you can at least see what you're spamming. :sgiggle: Smart alec comment aside, I'm serious! It would give the player an overview of what's going on below the platform and the monsters, projectiles, etc. would provide endless free animated eye candy without changing anything (other than adding the window, duh). :ssmile:

Ironically that is one of the things I have added. The top bit is no longer a pointless box, it is now the control room, or at least poses as one. The front is glass that you can see through, there is only one ledge to stand on now, just the top one.

You could call the noob-friendly version Absolutely Easy Hell. :srofl: Seriously, it'd be a fun map if you were to make it. :smmm:

Lol, may be something to think of in the future. :srofl: