This is so ridiculous...

[omg]

Pms are more of a tool to end rubbish maps. Would rather dedi on boring maps so we can move on to xeno,utopia or divine but dedi selection is shit anyway so usually fails but sometimes works.
Server lost its co-op when players became hoarders, dont listen, dont use there brain cells and yes you will die if you jump into the monsters or shooting that monster could be worse than leaving it idle
xp became so limited that team work became less of a priority.
maybe up the xp from <1kpph to 2kpph< at least building new character wouldnt take 600 hours
i personally dont have 600 hours to waste on new class so stick to my good class
Dont remove dedi, remove all the hp and amrils so dedi can kill on torlan knocks and cubes. plus pms can be used to kill the cocky players who think there the best on ut (know who you are namby-pamby club :swink: ).

[El_Salvador_503]

To build a rank 3 ( level 100)of any class you only need 200 hours depends on the players tho...server is new and the scarcity of maps for my zerk made me make a rank 3 support and rank 3 paladin, having all is more fun that just 1 boring class, in the future the server will be better with more maps and new stuff, but that takes a lot of work and Time we need to understand that ^^

[SomethingToSay]

So you're mad because the paladin won't pick up your adren, or the berserk decides to pick it up instead because the paladin won't pick it up?

I'm mad because the Paladin WAS picking up the adren, but he was taking SO long in doing it, the selfish berserk was coming back to use it for booster, rather than waiting for the paladin to pick it up and make us health which i believe ends up being a better use of adren? I'm trying to play a team game, the paladin is but taking forever, but the berserk says screw your team game i'm not going to wait an extra second. So what incentive is there to try and play a team game instead of me just keeping the adren myself and using booster myself?

I gave adren meant explicitly for a paladin so he could make health for EVERYONE, it would've helped the berserk too, but the berserk just runs in and takes it all for himself, he does that a lot tbh...

I don't know why you seem to be getting screwed all the time by other players and I'm sorry for that, but when I do play, I don't ever feel like I'm being screwed. Maybe that is saying something.

Regarding the more important issue here that is player monsters, I don't disagree what has already been said about it. I just don't mind it as much as others seem to do apparently. However, I do agree with what Azmodan had to say about the dedicated monsters.

Like you said though, you don't play THAT much, and I don't recall seeing you with this *particular* person. I don't have near as much a problem with Sal now that I understand how he gets the points and it was explained better, though I'd still hope he doesnt rush -_-



I also agree with azmo, I'd rather have 25% than 50, since often it's the high level players that dedi, meaning you're left with weak players taking on the map AND high level players.3

To build a rank 3 ( level 100)of any class you only need 200 hours depends on the players tho...server is new and the scarcity of maps for my zerk made me make a rank 3 support and rank 3 paladin, having all is more fun that just 1 boring class, in the future the server will be better with more maps and new stuff, but that takes a lot of work and Time we need to understand that ^^

Yeah, I think I'm in the upper 100s and level 94 now on my paladin, and I had like no threat for the longest time XD though mahloe is level like 66 and has 215 hours somehow, so it depends

I agree with the making new classes etc, BUT that would be forcing someone like omg who doesn't really want to bother with another class to do that, and that starts to get into forcing players to play a certain way.

[DW_Ant]

Biggest problem with pms is latency, easy to hit AI with predictable movements but not pms because there so unpredictable.
hitting a player hugger is like trying to hit seekers on iguaza for me.
Apart from that pms are fun when you have a dedi teammate but boring when zerk is spamming shock combo or necro spamming his curse.
(maybe set server to give some sort of time delay to match highest ping player to all players so high ping players are at a less of a disadvantage?)

I'm sorry, lag is always an issue when you're playing a time-sensitive game. Playing with 200+ ping is crazy.

Along that line, I also think that most of the time people treat defeats poorly due to WHY it was a defeat. Generally if it's say, 7 people in the server, and 6 are dead, it's courtesy to let the last one try and finish the objective, but if a PM came in and just killed them at the last moment, that could be angering to everyone else, not just the person killed, and discourteous.

I guess I would be that player monster if the resurrection is far. Usually I have limited time when I jump on the server. I come in there to play.

Say we're on Opp Knocks, and 6 players are playing, and 5 are dead, the last one is a rank 3. Unless all 5 of those players attack at once, which NEVER happens, when they come at that rank 3 individually, they have no shot. Meaning everyone is going to sit there and watch the PMs dance around with the rank 3 for a while until the rank 3 inevitably kills them. Now we've wasted another minute for nothing, AND the rank 3 will now go heal up again, making the wait even more. This isn't a case of "oh there are PMs behind us, lets hurry up and jump forward so they disappear", that only would make sense if it's a low level that can't handle the PM. Otherwise we're wasting our time in a death match and it takes LONGER.

Yes, there are times where the player monsters slow the game down, but there are greater times they will end the game. Especially with the new game rules where the player monsters gain monster tokens for every time they attack. If they are persistent, then the survivors will not be able to withstand the player monsters.

The alternative method to become a stronger monster is to jump in Iso Combat. Either case, it's a time-sensitive situation. The longer the survivors stall, the stronger the dead becomes (only if the dead are active).

How am I supposed to get anywhere when 3 out of 6 people are dedicated? Rush the objectives so that the low players get revived? So that the dedicated can just rape them again within seconds? Most of the time when that happens its the high lvl players who don't like a player or a map and most of the time they got the curse ability as well so it ends even sooner.

I would suggest dedicated rate at 25% of the players, so you need at least 4 people in the game before one can go dedicated 1 on 3 and next one at 8 players, 2 on 6. Finally 3 on 9.

Acknowledged, I'll reduce the max percent dedicated monsters to 25% instead of 50% next time I take the server down.

I'm trying to play a team game, the paladin is but taking forever, but the berserk says screw your team game i'm not going to wait an extra second.

You are playing a team game regardless if you're doing well, or if the progression stray from your intentions. I wouldn't get upset over this though. There are many that can't read minds, and there are players that don't read text.

Also Paladins can't heal everyone unless they have Loaded/Field Medic.



Regarding to the suggestion about the frequent resurrections/removing player monsters.
That was proposed awhile ago. We concluded that we didn't want another MM server. The demand isn't high enough for this. Franky, I brought this proposition to you, too. Back then you were against it.

I've created this mod because several DWs and I wanted something different from MM. I wanted something very challenging. I wanted a game where the players couldn't camp their way to victory, or the players couldn't walk over the opposition (monsters). From the beginning, I knew it was targeted for a smaller audience (note the 12 max player), but there is now a game mod targeted for the few players that wanted this challenge.

[El_Salvador_503]

There is a big difference without PMs already, just with the Assault mode, 90% of players don't use them, they would prefer to wait for teammates to complete the Obj and yes become a pm just to explore around, but there are player that just like to kill the alive players they do it to res and get exp but they know it bothers others, some times there are player that die and they quit thats bad for the server, their only choice to res is wait or kill, mayority waits other quit, they wouldn't quit if after a few mins they know there will be a res and they will have to be more careful and teamplayer to survive, Assault thats the big diff and the way of playing not the PMs,ME succeeded on making me keep and keep playing but I tell you something is not the PM mode for sure, that makes me not play sometimes, anyways this is only my opinion ...

[DW_Ant]

That's understandable. I also appreciate Warhead's explanation why several players are upset with the player monsters.

It's perfectly fine if you don't want to be a player monster and wait out the next resurrection. I'm defending the players who are being kicked voted for being hostile player monsters.
I'm also explaining why player monsters exists and why they remain on the server.

[SomethingToSay]

TBH though, I haven't used iso once since the update, has anyone else? I think especially early on when its just a few scattered enemies that dont come after you in iso, it's just way way more efficient to be a PM and attack players rather than waste forever trying to get a few kills in iso, anyone used iso?


What do you mean paladins cant heal everyone? If I keep making adren for him, he could make medkits(which the player in this instance DID have) and the berserk and myself could've used those.

It's much more efficient to give say 30 adren and make a medkit that heals 35 or whatever, rather than booster which only heals I think 82 for every 100 adren.


In terms of actually KICK voting based on PMs, I havent really seen that at all, if ever, I can't think of anything like that. It's usually just *certain people* who are being pricks, and like you said, not reading the text or listening to teammates etc, just off in their own world screwing everyone else

[Azmodan]

What do you mean paladins cant heal everyone? If I keep making adren for him, he could make medkits(which the player in this instance DID have) and the berserk and myself could've used those.

What Ant meant is, you can't fully heal the whole party with just medkits. A medkit is nothing more then the band-aid of the Paladin skills. Sure its better then boosting, but if you are trying to heal a rank 4 player with 600 HP with medkits, it will take a massive amount of adren as well.
With a medic gun on the other hand all you need to fully heal someone is some ammo that you can even get from the lockers at most times.

[vinc3h]

The simple truth and fact of it is, player monsters are balanced out just fine. Most of the problems, come from dedicated monsters. Those need work. Player monsters however, are balanced out just fine and serve a real purpose, anyone who really thinks otherwise in my eyes just likes to complain because they think it should be how they want it, all because of MINOR nuisances..

Oh, your the last player and you got killed by a PM which ended the game... Well, that sucks, but oh well? No one should be punished for this, EVER. There should never be a kick vote for player monster activities, unless for example your blocking hostile monsters for the players, which is against the rules.

Secondly, i for one, damn well don't want to wait for a RES. I will always be a hostile player monsters unless i state otherwise, which rarely happens because i want to play, and quite frankly i could care less what people think of it because I don't spend much time playing, and could use that XP a lot more then those higher ranks so i could enjoy those high levels as well.

Thirdly, 90% of the time, player monsters are hardly a concern. I see more complaining about a single individual being a PM or dedicated (which is HARDLY a problem MOST of the time, then i do when half the team is constantly playing as a hostile PM while dead.)

Player monsters are part of the Evo environment, they more then likely will never go anywhere, deal with it folks. lol It isn't a big deal, i enjoy it, it adds to the gameplay, and balances out the action with both dead, and live players. You deal with problems in other games you buy, this is no exception. Ant cant cater to every problem you have, and in my opinion one nuisance fixed, will just lead to another one found by the community that will be complained about.

So to conclude this topic i've already spent too much time on, player monsters are fine, quit complaining because someone else wants to play and get back in, and you just happen to be his victim. I do beleive you can be a PM too? and get ur way back in if ur capable..

My only problem with PM's is, those douche bags (no names) who kick vote for being killed by one. It SHOULD be a ban-able offense for kick voting ANYONE for using a feature of the game in the way it is intended. End of story. All those who conduct such actions, should feel lucky you have such a kind admin running the server. Oh, and dedicated monsters suck, i would agree with anyone on that, but once its polished and balanced out more, even that is not a problem. Players MAKE it a problem by abusing it, or complaining because they simply find it a nuisance.

Think about it, i myself want to kill you even more for complaining about me being a player monsters, then i would if you were nice and didn't care about me being one.

Anyway, no hard feelings, i just don't like complaints and these are my thoughts. Especially with this whole kicking of players problem, I have no power but, anyone can see its just plain immature abuse of the system from some dickheads, that most people probably don't like most of the time..

[SomethingToSay]

What do you mean paladins cant heal everyone? If I keep making adren for him, he could make medkits(which the player in this instance DID have) and the berserk and myself could've used those.

What Ant meant is, you can't fully heal the whole party with just medkits. A medkit is nothing more then the band-aid of the Paladin skills. Sure its better then boosting, but if you are trying to heal a rank 4 player with 600 HP with medkits, it will take a massive amount of adren as well.
With a medic gun on the other hand all you need to fully heal someone is some ammo that you can even get from the lockers at most times.

Nobody was even rank 3, so that wasnt an issue. It doesn't take so long to heal a rank 2 berserk.