Two ONS maps were announced recently

[DW_WailofSuicide]

The large file size can be attributed to the 512x512 textures.

Maybe it's just me but the mapmaker for this thing (DGUnreal) really rubs me the wrong way.

At first I thought the same thing, but keep in mind that he never meant for this map to be used for public game play. When he introduced the map to both Atari and Titan forums he basically wanted to know what the players thought about the map. His goal was to turn it into a viable ONS/DM map. I'm not sure if you read all the threads but I feel that he handled the constructive criticism pretty good. In some instances he went out of his way to describe to the players what takes place during the map design process. I found it interesting and informative. Now you have to admit that "a_spec" took his opinions a little overboard.

All in all I think the map is nice. Yeah, the manta's do scrape going up the hills but if you follow the paths or jump every so often you shouldn't have an real problems. Gamers complain about the 22MB file size but you only download it once. :blackeye:

UT2k3/4 textures are 512 x 512 by default. Like I said, the reason why this map is big is because of the terrain (which is using a 512x512 heightmap, IIRC, whereas the standard is 128x128). I'm not a "pro level designer" but it seems like it would be reasonably straightforward to reduce the terrain detail from 512x512 to 256x256 or even 128x128. It's this guy's map, and he's free not to degrade the visual quality of the map, but it strikes me as symptomatic of the problems of UT2k3/4 that a mapmaker is not willing to compromise on the visual quality even when it negatively affects playability (see: getting stuck on SMs). Ultimately UT is a game, and if you're going to take a scene from Bryce / 3DS Max / Maya, or any other such graphics program it's a bit foolish to go on about how you're doing "UE 2.5" when people complain about the (unnecessary) level of detail in the terrain when it negatively affects the gameplay.

[jrv2kgt-s]

So you're stressing lesser detail to provide greater playability, right?

[DW_WailofSuicide]

So you're stressing lesser detail to provide greater playability, right?

Well, I think I'm stressing saner levels of detail for greater playability. A 512x512 terrain is 16x more poly intensive than a 128x128 terrain, the benefits it provides are (1) looking good... And, well, that seems about it. Certainly there must always be an analysis of the pros and cons of the visual aesthetic against the gameplay and performance, but I think the wrong one was chosen here. It's like having a room full of 16000 polygon barrels when 1000 polygon barrels would suffice. Is the marginal aesthetic improvement worth the costs? Anyway, not my map and not my decision, so I'm done talking about it, heh.

[jrv2kgt-s]

Thank you for supplying your 2 cents on the matter because for the past 3 months I've been working on an ONS map myself. The map is going to look like Bourbon Street and some of the surrounding blocks in New Orleans. To achieve this I've been taking pictures at certain angles to get the texture images just right. The only problem that I've come across so far is determining the level of detail that I should go with. As always I’m sure there will be more problems as I progress further in development.

Here is what I have planned thus far:
-One long road to access both cores.
-The main street will have debris to shield vehicles in defensive positions.
-Each Core will be shielded from the main street(must be attacked from behind).
-There will be 6 Nodes inside various clubs on Bourbon Street with roof access for aerial attacks. The Node link layout will be in an X pattern.

[DW_WailofSuicide]

Thank you for supplying your 2 cents on the matter because for the past 3 months I've been working on an ONS map myself. The map is going to look like Bourbon Street and some of the surrounding blocks in New Orleans. To achieve this I've been taking pictures at certain angles to get the texture images just right. The only problem that I've come across so far is determining the level of detail that I should go with. As always I’m sure there will be more problems as I progress further in development.

Here is what I have planned thus far:
-One long road to access both cores.
-The main street will have debris to shield vehicles in defensive positions.
-Each Core will be shielded from the main street(must be attacked from behind).
-There will be 6 Nodes inside various clubs on Bourbon Street with roof access for aerial attacks. The Node link layout will be in an X pattern.

Cool, sounds interesting. Will it be flooded? (Not to be too unsympathetic to the situation there, but I think it would be more visually pleasing to have at least some ankle-deep water and such). What sort of scale are you going for -- A realistic scale, I'm hoping?

Anyway, at least on the ground, an urban map will have plenty of things to block LOS and such. You should have no problem putting in a good level of detail. Just for reference, my maps tend to run around ~1500 BSP brushes + meshes, and run fine as long as the viewlengths are controlled.

[jrv2kgt-s]

Cool, sounds interesting. Will it be flooded? (Not to be too unsympathetic to the situation there, but I think it would be more visually pleasing to have at least some ankle-deep water and such). What sort of scale are you going for -- A realistic scale, I'm hoping?

Anyway, at least on the ground, an urban map will have plenty of things to block LOS and such. You should have no problem putting in a good level of detail. Just for reference, my maps tend to run around ~1500 BSP brushes + meshes, and run fine as long as the viewlengths are controlled.

When I first started on it I wanted to use the entire image. Later I learned that I needed to create individual tile sets and go from there due to the angle that the picture was taken. This has subsaquently increased the amount of time needed to complete the map. The width of the Bourbon street is the same size as the one of the partitioned areas in the middle of Bitchslap. The overall map width is the same as Bitchslap. The map is not going to be an exact duplicate of Bourbon. A large number of the clubs are going to be omitted due to logistical reasons. I haven't decided weather to add flooded areas or not. There will be large dumpsters full of trash on the street acting as defensive shields for players and vehicles. I am thinking about adding dirty water along the curb of the main drag.

So far I only have a wire frame mock up of the map so far. I still need to make the lights, road signs, business signs, balconies and sky box. Also I still need to take pictures of 3 clubs. So far the current clubs that will be used for node bases are:

Cat’s Meow – will include the karaoke stage and bar.
Dungeon – will include famous gothic theme interior.
Pat O’s – will include the patio area with a Hurricane mixed drink banner “We don’t run from Hurricanes, we drink them”.
Razoo’s - will include the dance floor and bars.
Utopia’s – will include the patio area and dance floor.
Tropical Isle – will include the bar area, and a few of their famous mixed drink signs(the hand grenade).

I will post screen shots of the map as soon as I apply some textures to the map. I’m also thinking about adding a few satirical images that native New Orlenians would enjoy. ;-)

[DW_Wraith]

"Like I said, the reason why this map is big is because of the terrain (which is using a 512x512 heightmap, IIRC, whereas the standard is 128x128). I'm not a "pro level designer" but it seems like it would be reasonably straightforward to reduce the terrain detail from 512x512 to 256x256 or even 128x128."

I was wondering, WailofSuicide, that if you have a large map, how can you not use a 512X512 heightmap? I'm creating a map, and I tried using a 256X256 heightmap, but then the terrain length and width shrink in size proportionately. Am I missing something? Let me know if I'm doing something wrong, or maybe I misunderstood something with terrain editing. Thanks....