Death Warrant Forums

40 Shards wrote:When do you guys use the minigun? Players seem to enjoy it but I rarely see them in action (at least vs MP5). I know I always use the MP5 over it unless I get lucky with the mini's modifier, and from what I can tell the MP5 does 25% more damage from any range. Just wondering btw :compress:

i never use the minigun unless i have a shitty mp5 or get a minigun of poison. it does less damage than mp5 and earns alot less experience (my char has 290 DB and 10 ADB) and generally the spread is too far to use unless you're up close and personal which a sub level 100 weapon master has a pretty hard time doing at later waves.

Seven_of_69 wrote:All the weapons are useful in some manner or other and it often depends on their magic type. A petri bio rifle can give you Holy Shard kills while a healing bio can keep lower levels alive. A knockback lightning gun can push raptors and other monsters away. Vorpal LG can be good if you don't have a vorpal shock. Standard energy grenades with a triple can gain you adren much faster than the triple uses it. Petri, freezing, piercing, and other grenades can be useful in specific cases. Petri, freezing, and healing rox are useful. For a WM, nrg+3 rox can tank Luci with globe and triple as long as you start with full adren. I never gain as much adren back with rox as I do with nrg link or flak.

If any changes are needed for weapons, my suggestion is to reduce the volume of the booming EONS grenade launcher. :faroah:

i honestly doubt all weapons are useful. you give an example of a bio rifle, but even with 4 resupply without an infinite modifier i find the weapon slightly useless as the ammo runs out far too quickly to use on more than a few monsters. knockback lightning gun? the only really useful mods on a lg is vorpal and chain lightning. everything else sorta pales when you can use it on a shock rifle for more exp. energy weapons are mostly only good on fast firing weapons and 100 weapon speed barely makes rocket launcher a useful weapon for that. as people have already said, flak is better for the job. rocket launcher is a bit too slow to use on anything unless you spam with an inf or are shooting at lucifer. avril is good for the early waves with those annoying flying things...but thats about it. grenade launcher would be massively improved if it simply detonated when it encountered an enemy or if they walked over it.

i mean like scumsberg said some weapons only need a slight mechanic change or a damage / firing speed rebalance. its very possible and possibly easy to balance.

Whether a weapon is useful or not is a matter of opinion and circumstance. For me an inf mp5 or inf link is useless. That's probably blasphemy to many players. I give them away as long as I have a replacement. Bio has its uses. If it runs out of ammo then I switch to another weapon. I can't speak for an AM but if you're a WM tanking Luci and your only energy gun is rox, they are a necessity even if it's not the preferred nrg gun. Avril is useful against seekers and anything that flies on maps like Amazing Garden. On most other maps, avril is less useful for me. It always depends on the circumstances.

D2Boss wrote: People may laugh at me, but I think the vorpal shield gun is pretty cool, too :D

Here you go Boss, a bit of evidence to support your cause :cheers:

DW_Bomzin wrote:

Seven_of_69 wrote:Whether a weapon is useful or not is a matter of opinion and circumstance. For me an inf mp5 or inf link is useless. That's probably blasphemy to many players. I give them away as long as I have a replacement. Bio has its uses. If it runs out of ammo then I switch to another weapon. I can't speak for an AM but if you're a WM tanking Luci and your only energy gun is rox, they are a necessity even if it's not the preferred nrg gun. Avril is useful against seekers and anything that flies on maps like Amazing Garden. On most other maps, avril is less useful for me. It always depends on the circumstances.

uh how is this true at all? a weapon's usefulness is opinion / circumstance? sure circumstance dictates some part of it, like mine launcher being useful in situations where you can only shoot out of a window without getting damaged. but what dictates a weapon's usefulness? well let's actually sit down and see why some of the popular weapons are used so many times.

we have to take into account several factors, not just opinion and circumstance. these factors are: is it projectile or hitscan? (hitscan being shock rifle, mp5, minigun...). How fast is it's rate of fire (100% weapon speed included)? If it's a projectile weapon, how fast does the projectile move and/or does it arc or go straight?

if its an exploding weapon, how big is the radius of impact? what is the weapon's damage per second, relatively speaking? (as in, mp5 can easily obtain the full use of its dps, whereas a link gun requires a big target, a chokepoint, or a stationary target like lucifer). does it have an interesting or useful secondary function? (ie link gun's "link", flak cannon's grenades). is the player skilled with said weapon?

now this isn't exhaustive by any means, but we can tell by simply brainstorming that a weapon's usefulness and efficiency is far more dependent on a wide spread of factors that are definitely not confined to circumstance and are in no way related to opinion, but objective fact. the reason people use a link gun isn't because they THINK it's a better weapon to use on lucifer than a grenade launcher; they use it because it IS a better weapon to use on lucifer. Why? Lucifer is stationary, link gun does massive dps, its secondary function is highly desirable for exp gain as well as damage, it has a very fast rate of fire and a good projectile speed while staying relatively low on the ammo usage per resupply. though most people do want inf link guns for this, people with higher levels of resupply can also participate and still get good gains from it because its an efficient weapon.

in this situation, lucifer being stationary would be considered the 'circumstance' that enables this weapon to use the full potential of its usefulness. that is to say, if we use link gun in a different circumstance its likely not going to be AS useful AS it is when fighting lucifer (save for a massive choke point where all hits will count). but so many factors also go in to making that weapon USEFUL FOR that situation.

my arguement is that certain weapons have too few circumstances in which they are useful. either by mechanic of how the weapon works, or by a couple or more of the factors i listed (rate of fire, dps) people do not use the weapon.

let's look at bio rifle out of pure example. why do people not use bio rifle? the only situation in which this weapon is useful is an infinite weapon, mainly because ammo expenditure is too great to make it useful otherwise. therefore we are missing out on several magic weapon modifiers that we often use with other weapons for them to gain efficiency where we lack on bio rifle. but even if we DO have an infinite bio rifle, it seems that the rate of fire, projectile speed, range, and circumstances its useful in make it an unappealing weapon when compared to other weapons that have a much broader sense of being useful and will be used over it. because it arc's (and therefore ranged), it's likely not going to be used on a bigger map where much longer ranged weapons will be ideal; because it's secondary function isn't all that interesting (it doesn't make it a varied weapon, lowers range even more. damage is ideal however); because the dps, while decent enough, also depends on being able to hit with it making hitscan / flak a much more attractive alternative. its because you don't get necessary gains in using it on even situations where it would be useful that people do not use this weapon. the only people who use it are people like me who simply like the bio rifle, or when they just don't have any better weapons to use.

that said i've always liked bio rifle, but again, that doesn't mean its by any means a useful efficient weapon for dwrpg/invasion.

it's one thing to tell me its possibly a strain to rebalance the weapons, that for the sake of scripting its not going to happen, etc. but its quite another just to try to keep the status quo just because it's been like that forever and tell me the weapons are fine.

juice wrote:let's look at bio rifle out of pure example. why do people not use bio rifle? the only situation in which this weapon is useful is an infinite weapon, mainly because ammo expenditure is too great to make it useful otherwise. therefore we are missing out on several magic weapon modifiers that we often use with other weapons for them to gain efficiency where we lack on bio rifle. but even if we DO have an infinite bio rifle, it seems that the rate of fire, projectile speed, range, and circumstances its useful in make it an unappealing weapon when compared to other weapons that have a much broader sense of being useful and will be used over it. because it arc's (and therefore ranged), it's likely not going to be used on a bigger map where much longer ranged weapons will be ideal; because it's secondary function isn't all that interesting (it doesn't make it a varied weapon, lowers range even more. damage is ideal however); because the dps, while decent enough, also depends on being able to hit with it making hitscan / flak a much more attractive alternative. its because you don't get necessary gains in using it on even situations where it would be useful that people do not use this weapon. the only people who use it are people like me who simply like the bio rifle, or when they just don't have any better weapons to use.

Uuuh an inf bio rifle is not the ONLY situation in which a bio rifle is useful. A petri, energy, knockback or whatever magic type of bio rifle can be very very useful ok maybe not for a long period of time but it is still a useful weapon for the period of time you are using it. Every weapon will run out of ammo eventually, well depending on your ammo bonus and whether its an inf, but until that weapon runs out of ammo it is useful. Just because a weapon will at somepoint run out of ammo does not make it useless, on that theory every weapon is useless :s If i have an energy or petri bio rifle i will happily run around any map using it till it runs outa ammo.

You sound like the type of player who hasnt discovered that their are other magic types apart from inf :s

:queen:

Special thanks to the latest patch... Now we got more weapons that can vorp!

Minigun, Avril, & Juicy Bio Rifles!

Rocket is right... Try experimenting with the magic mods, you may find something you love. Always remember that reloading weapons are your friend ;)

RocketQueen wrote:

juice wrote:let's look at bio rifle out of pure example. why do people not use bio rifle? the only situation in which this weapon is useful is an infinite weapon, mainly because ammo expenditure is too great to make it useful otherwise. therefore we are missing out on several magic weapon modifiers that we often use with other weapons for them to gain efficiency where we lack on bio rifle. but even if we DO have an infinite bio rifle, it seems that the rate of fire, projectile speed, range, and circumstances its useful in make it an unappealing weapon when compared to other weapons that have a much broader sense of being useful and will be used over it. because it arc's (and therefore ranged), it's likely not going to be used on a bigger map where much longer ranged weapons will be ideal; because it's secondary function isn't all that interesting (it doesn't make it a varied weapon, lowers range even more. damage is ideal however); because the dps, while decent enough, also depends on being able to hit with it making hitscan / flak a much more attractive alternative. its because you don't get necessary gains in using it on even situations where it would be useful that people do not use this weapon. the only people who use it are people like me who simply like the bio rifle, or when they just don't have any better weapons to use.

Uuuh an inf bio rifle is not the ONLY situation in which a bio rifle is useful. A petri, energy, knockback or whatever magic type of bio rifle can be very very useful ok maybe not for a long period of time but it is still a useful weapon for the period of time you are using it. Every weapon will run out of ammo eventually, well depending on your ammo bonus and whether its an inf, but until that weapon runs out of ammo it is useful. Just because a weapon will at somepoint run out of ammo does not make it useless, on that theory every weapon is useless :s If i have an energy or petri bio rifle i will happily run around any map using it till it runs outa ammo.

You sound like the type of player who hasnt discovered that their are other magic types apart from inf :s

:queen:

this is pretty optimistic. even with max resupply its still too easy to run out of bio ammo.