Vorpal sniper rifle... ehhh.

[juice]

The ideal magic context on top of the ideal weapon context is part of what makes MM infinitely unique. LG seems useless? Yeah, a lot of the time it is. But make it vorpal and it's good. Make it knock-back and you can push monsters a long way away or even over the edge. Make it healing or inf and yawn, it's pretty boring.

Regardless of the magic type, an LG could almost never be a primary weapon for MM but it has a useful role as a secondary support weapon. The same goes for sniper, bio, Amril, and shield gun.

I guess it'd be nice to have more XP balance amongst all the weapons but it's not a show stopper. Anyway my style is to use the most effective weapon possible to get the job done. Usually that's the one that does the most damage regardless of the XP it gives.

i think people are misunderstanding us. we're not asking all weapons to be changed to be perfectly balanced or anything. we simply note that some weapons just seem to fall greatly behind others and would be ideal if they could be artificially "pushed up" a notch so that they can be more useful for Invasion. certain weapons, while good, are the "black sheep" of the weapons loadout since they don't perform as well (less exp when used flawlessly even with ideal magic modifiers).

We're not asking for a major rebalance, merely minor tweaks so that it doesn't feel like we're being punished for using weapons outside the norm, if you understand me. like lg could use a minor damage increase, that's all, so that it can also be an effective way to earn exp if used CORRECTLY! let me emphasize this: i am not asking for sniper/lg, for example, to make as much exp as an inf link on lucifer. No! I'm just asking that, given rate of fire / damage and difficulty of use, it could be raised slightly so that it can be EFFECTIVE at making exp when used advantageously! as in, used skillfully, it should net you the appropriate exp as reward for skill. many weapons do this already, but some do not.

that is what we're trying to put forward. nothing more, nothing less. I am sorry if i've caused any misunderstanding: i'm not dissenting about the way things are, just opening up the possibility of improving them. and, since some ask it, i would definitely be willing to "walk the walk" and provide aid for implementing anything I do.

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

Mabye some stats will help you guys understand then.

The base damage of a Vorpal weapon is +10% per plus. A +10 vorpal is therefore 100% more damage (ist like a permanent double damage weapon). Compared to the second strongest weapon, the damage, that can only give a maximum of +40% damage, vorpal is the strongest weapon in the server. I don't see why it should be even more stronger. This make any vorpal sniper or lg very powerfull, why do people still complaining about this... seriously i don't get it?

Now considering the vorpal insta-kill effect, like Wail said it have been tweek and now it's just back to normal. Here are the statistic of the old way and the new way that was there between June 2009 and October 2009:

Old way
=======

Vorpal +6 = 1% chance of vorp
Vorpal +10 = 5% chance of vorp
Vorpal +11 = 6% chance of vorp
Vorpal +22 = 17% chance of Vorp

Between june 2009 and October 2009
==================================

Vorpal +6 = 4% chance of vorp
Vorpal +10 = 8% chance of vorp
Vorpal +11 = 9% chance of vorp
Vorpal +22 = 12% chance of vorp

Looking at those number we can see that a +6 or +10 vorpal vorp less in the old way but a +22 vorpal vorp much more in the old way. The vorpal +22 at 17% is the MOST IMPRTANT AND THE ONLY TACTIC for the AM class to survive in the situation where the monster level increase (only way to kept adrenaline up with globe). This is why it should stay that way.

I rest my case.

[Scumsberg]

It seems you haven't realized the three pages of discussion in this thread aren't about the vorpal part.

[DW_WailofSuicide]

It seems you haven't realized the three pages of discussion in this thread aren't about the vorpal part.

In a way they are, because the way this discussion was framed is, "I want certain Vorpal weapons to be more powerful." -- Well, Vorpal weapons are already the most powerful weapon type in themselves. Franky's saying, "I don't see why it should be even more stronger."

[DW_ACY]

What you really want then is for the Lg and sniper to fire faster to make the same exp as other weapons. Because that is the difference that you are alluding to. The rate of fire for these weapons can not keep up with that of other weapons that can take out monsters faster. That would effectively do the same thing as raising the damage for the weapons. I just don't see that happening weapons speed 100 already makes the weapons fire faster on all. The Lg/ sniper fire rate is faster than normal death-match/freon. You guys are asking to change a basic component and I personally just don't see the need.

If you want to prove your skill then use those weapons and kick everyone's rear anyway. that to me would be the challenge not changing the game to make it more favorable to you. Just my opinion. Not trying to be nasty or harsh gents just a fact.

[Scumsberg]

No, I'm not asking for additional speed. I'm asking for weapons to give a more balanced XP per minute ratio, and that can be done by upping the XP per shot, not by increasing sniper/lg/AVRIL rate of fire.

Vorpal snipe is the title of the thread and the example used, but again my issue isn't its vorpal rate (which I still find poor), it's that its XP per shot makes it not worth using WITH that poor vorpal rate. I don't know how I can explain this any clearer than I already have, yet still people are completely missing the point and focusing on the least important aspect of the criticism (the vorpal part).

The thread has taken a slight tangent to include other lackluster weapons that are seldom if ever worth using, like AVRIL, to emphasize the point that worthless weapons do exist and their worthlessness is determined by their poor XP ratio. Weapon type (hitscan or true projectile), project effect (splash or no splash), rate of fire, ammo consumption, range, whether or not it arcs, and the circumstances it can be used in are further factors that influence whether a weapon is giving proper XP for its use.

With this in mind, it is my personal opinion that a +10 vorpal sniper rifle that gives 1 XP per regular shot is worthless because its rate of fire is slow, it obscures your screen when fired AND it only triggers its vorpal effect once out of every 10 to 30 shots. Therefore, what you consider one of the most powerful weapons in the game is, in fact, one of the most worthless weapons in the game to make XP with. That is the point I'm trying to make.

Again, if something were implemented to track weapons based on their percentage of use in-game, you'd quickly find out what these low worth weapons are.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to sound like I'm attacking the developers. I've had tons of fun on MM Invasion and I only post this because I'd like to suggest improvements balance-wise.

[Seven_of_69]

i think people are misunderstanding us. we're not asking all weapons to be changed to be perfectly balanced or anything. we simply note that some weapons just seem to fall greatly behind others and would be ideal if they could be artificially "pushed up" a notch so that they can be more useful for Invasion. certain weapons, while good, are the "black sheep" of the weapons loadout since they don't perform as well (less exp when used flawlessly even with ideal magic modifiers).

Actually I do understand. I was just mentioning an alternative style of play. I am neither for nor against bumping up the damage of the "black sheep". And I'm not indecisive about it; it's just not important to me. :ssmile: Maybe sniper and LG should do more damage, maybe not. IMO they are just not that useful for MM (but that also depends on the magic type) and are more suited for other game types like deathmatch with flags (i.e. CTF :swink:).

Overall I think it comes down to one's style of play. Some players are on the brink of level 600, some are 500+, and a lot are 300-400+. Not including medics, most if not all the WMs and AMs got that way with: energy flak; energy, petri, or inf link; petri, energy, or inf MP5; and vorpal shock when available. Yes many other magic types and other weapons were used along the way but IMO those are the core key combinations.

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

It seems you haven't realized the three pages of discussion in this thread aren't about the vorpal part.

Mabby U should check the thread title just to be sure. I think it's "Vorpal sniper rifle... ehhh."

With this in mind, it is my personal opinion that a +10 vorpal sniper rifle that gives 1 XP per regular shot is worthless because its rate of fire is slow

Ok seriously dude you're right. A vorpal sniper +10 that gives 1 XP per regular shot is worthless. I just don't know where you get the idea that a vorpal +10 sniper give 1 XP per shot since it actually gave 4 XP per shot on a Titan at wave 15 when the monster level is around 50.

So i'm going to explain it again to you 1 more time. If a vorpal sniper +10 only give 1 XP per shot with max DB this can only mean one thing: THE MONSTER LEVEL MUST HAVE INCREASE BECAUSE ALL THE LOW LEVEL DIED WHEN U NOTICE THAT. GET IT!

[Scumsberg]

I've fired the +10 vorpal snipe at the beginning of wave 15 when no one's died and still only received 1 XP, but I'll try it again when I have the chance to verify this.

Either way I find the hostility of this thread a bit of a downer, so I'm bowing out. Thanks for listening.

[juice]

What you really want then is for the Lg and sniper to fire faster to make the same exp as other weapons. Because that is the difference that you are alluding to. The rate of fire for these weapons can not keep up with that of other weapons that can take out monsters faster. That would effectively do the same thing as raising the damage for the weapons. I just don't see that happening weapons speed 100 already makes the weapons fire faster on all. The Lg/ sniper fire rate is faster than normal death-match/freon. You guys are asking to change a basic component and I personally just don't see the need.

If you want to prove your skill then use those weapons and kick everyone's rear anyway. that to me would be the challenge not changing the game to make it more favorable to you. Just my opinion. Not trying to be nasty or harsh gents just a fact.

for the sake of arguement, wouldn't you say druid's rpg mod has "changed a basic component" of Invasion?

EDIT: also franky i hardly see the need in chasing people out of a discussion you feel strongly about just because they are of a different mindset. if it turns out that there's overwhelming dissent over this idea i'll stick a sock in my mouth and stop posting about it. but i feel like this could improve the game. talking to other people seems to suggest that they are like minded in that DWRpg can still be improved with certain tweaks. i just don't understand why something like this needs to result in a public lashing on the forums.