Dreamus-Gorz

[DW_WailofSuicide]

You know, I was talking with Hornet off line, and he brought up some good points. I've had a channge of heart.

Dreamus is too good a map to mess with too much. Dreamus does not need a full makeover. It just needs a little lipstick.

I think we just need to stick with Wail's original suggestions (and get rid of the exploit. PM me if you don't know what it is) and I think that makes this map really great.

So in short, can we limit the mods to:

Beef up the lockers (and with a reasonable amount of ammo)
Get rid of the Deemer (nothing in it's place)
Reduce the number of spider mines
Fix the exploit

Now bitchslap, that's a POS. I don't care what you do with that :drunken:

Rich (TW)

Cool, I gotcha and I largely agree - I guess ultimately I'd prefer we just run one version of the map that fixes the major issues (even if I do want to give the new stuff a go) rather than risk having multiple versions show up on the server again.

[zeus]

Having some more powerful weapons in the base would help a lot, I think. The nodes are just much better equipped.

Also, getting rid of the deemer would help. It is just too eays to sway the map with that.

My problem is usually (with the way that people vote), an hour of dreamus2, than an hour of dreamus, than a hour of bitchslap, and then finally top it off with chain isle. My wrists can't take it!! :D

The funny thing is, I used to like those maps alot. I think it is because they are so simple. But, after you play them so many times, it just becomes tedious.

[Zax_Gentoo_Box]

Take the Deemer out?! I love deemers?!!?!?1 I got it... I see so few ion painters that switching that for the deemer would be cooler. The thing that makes it harder is you cant auto-pilot a rocket in, you have to have a LOS (Line of sight) to make it work. Usually when I get deemers I go back to the core (where the keg o' health and sniper rifle is) and just wait to pilot the nuke out. More of a challenge that way. Ya.. at the core should be a... ROCKET LAUNCHER. Perfect. So instead of having to go to that out of the way locker (original dreamus) or pick it up on the way to the elevator (Dreamus2) its there at the core. Of course, I don't know anything about map-making, so don't mind me.

Thanks Gorz! YOUR MY HERO! At least when it comes to maps. :cheers:

[SweetTooth]

dreamus is a bad map PERIOD. It is like Primeval but gayer imo. I never understood why people would play it. I would love for someone to enlighten me.

There are very few truly bad maps. Everyone will like something, and everyone will hate something. Its REALLY hard to make a map that people will like and every new creation runs the risk of not being as popular as the ones you made before. This particular map has a lot of things going for it though if you like the style - some really good scorpion and hellbender action, spammy, small, lots of action. Contrast with something like Dryice where you can spend 40 seconds or more doing nothing but driving to a node, only to die in 5 seconds and have to do it again. Different people like different things.

I could quickly and easily knock up a Dreamus-SVA with no changes other than beefy lockers, less mines and Target Painters rather than Deemers. I think this would improve the map a lot. Anyone want me to proceed?

to be honest i think you are rather naive/idealistic about most maps. Dreamus has horrible game play in its current incarnations plus it is possibly one of the most aesthetically shit maps every but that is a rant for another day. The game play is such that all you end up having currently are no talent hacks like VIC sitting around spawn raping with a bunch of people thinking that is actually pro. (rant for another day too) Plus the Manta raping is BAD. What needs to be done is avrils in more places plus shock and if no shock you should have flak because those three weapons are the best at dealing with mantas. Along with the mantas raping if that fact that the entire map can be turned into a giant race track. The middle hills are so open that a manta can go over them and retreat to safety. No real skill there to be honest, i would add a blocking volume to remedy this. THe spidermines are what make this map truely bad. people end up relying on an ai system to compensate for their own shortcomings thus they never learn. I hate to use this comparison but if you were to watch any clan match you will actually see much more action and far fewer usage of spidermines. By reducing the number of mines a player has you would greatly reduce the amount of spam. Also you will be forcing people to rely on others as opposed to just their own little deployed mindless army of spider mines. And in essence teamwork is what ONS is about. One man does not make a team and this is something i have personalyl experienced many times both on the good and the bad. Everyone loves when you come into a server and you can tell that you actually make a difference and with support of your team you end up winning. However everyone also hates when you come into a server and you do so much and it is obvious that you are the only one doing anything productive and the rest of your team is just chucking spider mines and then getting run over by mantas because they have never developed any other skills save for jump jump, hurl spider mine. Thus the map of dreamus serves only to make players worse.

yeah long rant but trust me it could be much worse. the aesthetics of Dreamus are shit and the map maker should be drawn and quartered for developing such a thing.

[KarnEvil9]

Good heavens me,....It certainly seems important,......
Change what you will but keep the current versions running.
Ders nuttin like a good cold sweat! KE

[Gorzakk]

to be honest i think you are rather naive/idealistic about most maps......

yeah long rant but trust me it could be much worse. the aesthetics of Dreamus are shit and the map maker should be drawn and quartered for developing such a thing.

But as you can see, someone says...

Dreamus is too good a map to mess with too much. Dreamus does not need a full makeover. It just needs a little lipstick.

Maps are only bad to those who dont enjoy them. And maps are only good to those who do. I agree with you that Dreamus needs some serious work, and that whoever decided to make such crap lockers needs to finish this map off but hey - if someone else likes it I'm not going to complain about it.

[DW_Hornet]

Well i delegate responsibility for dreamus 3 to gorzakk, and dreamus 4 to sweettooth. :idea:

Cmon, get cracking! :cheers:

[killrob]

:cheers: Seconding Namu!
Complete removal of the mines and deemer would be just fine
And why dont we have rippers YET!

[SweetTooth]

to be honest i think you are rather naive/idealistic about most maps......

yeah long rant but trust me it could be much worse. the aesthetics of Dreamus are shit and the map maker should be drawn and quartered for developing such a thing.

But as you can see, someone says...

Dreamus is too good a map to mess with too much. Dreamus does not need a full makeover. It just needs a little lipstick.

Maps are only bad to those who dont enjoy them. And maps are only good to those who do. I agree with you that Dreamus needs some serious work, and that whoever decided to make such crap lockers needs to finish this map off but hey - if someone else likes it I'm not going to complain about it.

have you actually SEEN dreamus? I mean actually LOOKED at it. Aesthetically it is possible the most desolate and horrible map ever. I know that is what they were going for but the could have accomplished the horrible game play with somethin g that looks a little better. i wont go into a full rant on this since i dont have time this morning but overall the map was poorly designed IMO. All aspects from aesthetics to terrain, to lockers to vehicle placements make this map play horribly. i will post later today about it though.

[kaeolian]

Hey sweettooth don't think iv had a proper chance to say hi yet so HI :cheers:

Now I don't want to sound arsy but you have got your opinions of Dreamus we have ours and a lot off people love it here. No matter how much you complain about the way it looks or plays that isn't going to change others peoples feelings towards it. If the game play is so horrible then why do so many people vote for it ?

And Vic may be very good in the tank but that doesn't detract from the rest of his game play as you are implying after playing with him in a scrim I have seen he isn't just a tank whore he has other skills too.

Now when it comes to playing dreamus with the rest of the public you cant expect everyone to be pro's not everyone plays often enough to be good at the game. When playing on a public server iv found it almost impossible unless you are surrounded by friends to play a "team" game. Each person will play in their own style which makes all games more spammy and less organised.

So in closing try and have fun, tweaking the map would be great but we still love it as is. And if your going to make a long post please use paragraphs your posts look like a screen door !

Cheers

SVA>Kaeolian