Spma is something i have thought of, i just dont care for the stupid satalite bug. Especially since it usually falls in middle of a battlezone and kills everyone fps. Now the cicada is an idea that i looked into and disregarded becuase i thought it would be two powerful. However you are the 4th person to make that suggestion so i will actaully go and do it, and see how it pans out.
As for weapon lockers the avril count is high becuase every node had ammo pick ups. I just dumped them in the lockers to lower the channel count. Same thing with link gun ammo. Right now its Avrils + 10 ammo, lower to +5? . I guess unless your a flying vehicle your pretty screwed.
Its not my map, the person who made it did a good job. The map is completely symmetrical, he built one side rotated it and pasted it over to the other. Good frames, an unsual theme, it couldnt have been left alone.
ONS-ColdSteel
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DW_WailofSuicide
- DW Clan Member
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am
I don't see that Shock/Avril/LG is some kind of unbalanced combination. Constant long range sniping could get irritating, but I haven't played this map recently enough to know. As long as there are some approaches with cover, or enough vehicles to transport a lot of troops quickly, it's not necessarily a problem.
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SweetTooth
you need to realize that having both hitscan weapons and avrils with a pretyt hefty ammo supply can cause issues. you are giving the player TOO much. ONS isnt about spamming or DMing or just vehicles. it is about management of resources. if you provide the player with everything right off the bat then where is the challenge? Where is the skill? Where is the management of resources? that was more the point i was making. plus having shock, lg and avrils means you can defend against pretty much anything. makes for nothing more than the win going to the better DMers.WailofSuicide wrote:I don't see that Shock/Avril/LG is some kind of unbalanced combination. Constant long range sniping could get irritating, but I haven't played this map recently enough to know. As long as there are some approaches with cover, or enough vehicles to transport a lot of troops quickly, it's not necessarily a problem.
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DW_WailofSuicide
- DW Clan Member
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am
Like I said, there's nothing inherently problematic with that loadout. If a locker's giving all three of those weapons with 20 extra ammo, then yes, that's probably too much under normal circumstances. All three weapons at base ammo isn't a big deal though, nor would it be a big deal if it were an enclosed area where you might be better off with Flak/Rockets.SweetTooth wrote:you need to realize that having both hitscan weapons and avrils with a pretyt hefty ammo supply can cause issues. you are giving the player TOO much. ONS isnt about spamming or DMing or just vehicles. it is about management of resources. if you provide the player with everything right off the bat then where is the challenge? Where is the skill? Where is the management of resources? that was more the point i was making. plus having shock, lg and avrils means you can defend against pretty much anything. makes for nothing more than the win going to the better DMers.WailofSuicide wrote:I don't see that Shock/Avril/LG is some kind of unbalanced combination. Constant long range sniping could get irritating, but I haven't played this map recently enough to know. As long as there are some approaches with cover, or enough vehicles to transport a lot of troops quickly, it's not necessarily a problem.
I don't want to turn this into a personal thing but you came across as pretty pedantic right there, insisting that you're right because "ONS is about management of resources." I'm sort-of inclined to agree with you, but that doesn't mean I enjoy situations where I'm constantly running out of ammo either. This is a 32p server, and that means you've got plenty of things to shoot at usually, and it also means that most people are here mainly for fun, not for intense competitive play ... And usually running out of ammo for everything except say, Link or AR, is not fun.
Im sure we can find a happy medium between the two mindsets. ST the map is pretty open in areas, any person familiar with a shock rifle will do well. You had some insight on what to do with the core vehicles. Do you mind repeating yourself as i dont know how to use xfire (unsure if it keeps a log, to used to msn for that). This way we can atleast get either agreement or disagreement on your suggestions.
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SweetTooth
Wail:
Too long of a post to explain why your scenarios are bad for pub play for the most part. I would rather get on vent/ts and explain it or write the novel of a response when i have time.
Hornet:
Xfire does log thing. I will send you the stuff later tonight.
Too long of a post to explain why your scenarios are bad for pub play for the most part. I would rather get on vent/ts and explain it or write the novel of a response when i have time.
Hornet:
Xfire does log thing. I will send you the stuff later tonight.
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DW_ToxicWaste
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:00 am
Yep, as I have said to you in a PM ST, this is a different mindset you have to have when looking at these maps. We're talking 32 players, 16 per side. No one here is pro. There are a LOT of vehicles to fight. And people are not thinking that they only have 10 shock left, so they better use rockets here to save it for the Cicada. It's a lot of point and shoot. Ammo management is not fun to these people, and it should not be part of this process.
Agree with you that for a "professional" experience you need these things, but this is not a "professional" experience, and I've said that several times. I think you have a lot of good ideas, but so do these folks. And unlike you, they know a lot more about what it takes to make a 32p server work than you do. So please do offer your opinions, even though I guarantee not all of them will be good from our perspective. And try to listen to these folks more until you understand what this is about. If you can't do that, then you will be of far less help than I think you can be.
Rich (TW)
Agree with you that for a "professional" experience you need these things, but this is not a "professional" experience, and I've said that several times. I think you have a lot of good ideas, but so do these folks. And unlike you, they know a lot more about what it takes to make a 32p server work than you do. So please do offer your opinions, even though I guarantee not all of them will be good from our perspective. And try to listen to these folks more until you understand what this is about. If you can't do that, then you will be of far less help than I think you can be.
Rich (TW)
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SweetTooth
the quick answer to things such as ammo count is two foldToxicWaste wrote:Yep, as I have said to you in a PM ST, this is a different mindset you have to have when looking at these maps. We're talking 32 players, 16 per side. No one here is pro. There are a LOT of vehicles to fight. And people are not thinking that they only have 10 shock left, so they better use rockets here to save it for the Cicada. It's a lot of point and shoot. Ammo management is not fun to these people, and it should not be part of this process.
Agree with you that for a "professional" experience you need these things, but this is not a "professional" experience, and I've said that several times. I think you have a lot of good ideas, but so do these folks. And unlike you, they know a lot more about what it takes to make a 32p server work than you do. So please do offer your opinions, even though I guarantee not all of them will be good from our perspective. And try to listen to these folks more until you understand what this is about. If you can't do that, then you will be of far less help than I think you can be.
Rich (TW)
1) 32 players + 15 avrils a piece = 480 avrils. Sound spammy at all?
2) the node location must be considered when giving weapons. places like the middle node on this map are highly contested. giving avrils or even a great weapons load out means that first team to get that node up can defend it all day with very little cost to them.
but again.... vent/ts > forums posts.
also ammo management isnt fun to these people? are you kidding? can you honestly tell me you get the same thrill from being given everything right off the bat then having to fight as you get when you have limited resources and have to actually use your brain to win? having a challenge isfun and giving people everything right off the bat is essentially dumbing down the game. but that is just my $0.02
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DW_ToxicWaste
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1060
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:00 am
You just don't get it, and I don't think you ever will.
We're happy to help you with Sun-Tsu if we can, but unless you can give suggestions with insults, and accept that people disagree with you, I'll ask you to stay out of the other map discussions.
Rich (TW)
We're happy to help you with Sun-Tsu if we can, but unless you can give suggestions with insults, and accept that people disagree with you, I'll ask you to stay out of the other map discussions.
Rich (TW)
His suggestions are good, they just arent explained why he feels a certain way well in a post. The thing is we have to focus on the larger picture of the map then just 1 small facet (or even 1 node). It takes 58 facets for a round brilliant diamond to gleam and they work in concert for that effect. Maps are the same way, there are nodes that are much easier to defend then others. Vehicle loadout, turrets, weapon lockers all contribute to it.
On the map itself there are 14 scorps, 8 benders, 2 tanks, 4 raptors, and 6 mantas. The only vehicles that arent included in this count are at the middle node which are the only paladin and cicada. 14 scorps is alot, there are nodes where you get 3 of them. To me this sounds like plenty on paper. However everyone complained about the walking hatred, which maybe have been atleast partially remedied with the dismantaling of some of the fences.
I sound like a broken record i think. I will post RC1 probally in the next few days for feedback.
On the map itself there are 14 scorps, 8 benders, 2 tanks, 4 raptors, and 6 mantas. The only vehicles that arent included in this count are at the middle node which are the only paladin and cicada. 14 scorps is alot, there are nodes where you get 3 of them. To me this sounds like plenty on paper. However everyone complained about the walking hatred, which maybe have been atleast partially remedied with the dismantaling of some of the fences.
I sound like a broken record i think. I will post RC1 probally in the next few days for feedback.