ONS-MINUSTANKMEUP: Poll/ request: to ADD another version

[DW_Skaank]

So I guess this means we're not going to get another version of minus tank?

[DW_ToxicWaste]

It looks like a lot of people want it. I have not decided yet. My instincts tell me no.

Wraith has made a proposal to make a copy of this map, and make some changes to it. The vehicle load out will be very similar, but he is thinking of new terrain, perhaps some additional vehicles, etc. But that will take time.

Rich (TW)

[ApeX]

A reply so thoughtfully written, requires one in kind.

So, let me start by saying, after reading the second paragraph, Toxic, apology accepted by me - though I cannot speak for the others on at the time. Secondly, Im not familiar with the various aliases that DWs use, so, I was NOT trying to take a shot at you. If I were trying to do so, I would say so in plain words. Thats just the kind of person I am. LOL.

Now, there were 32 other people playing that map, Toxic. Most people leave a server when they get bored to shits of a map. BUT NO ONE LEFT, except for the samuri guy. Now, if the Admin was doing this in the interest of other people, why not just warn people first like you usually do? All the admin had to type was 1 line " hey maps been played 3 rounds time to change it up.". Now, there would still be some grumbling for sure, but people would be far more understanding of the change.

And if people were tired of the map, why did the server population plummet as soon as the map was changed? And the map it was changed to was Volcanohigh. Not a new map by any means.

And Toxic, some of the same issues you struggle with are part of the reason why I no longer join any clans of any game. Yes, I AM familiar with the definitions posted but thank you for the clarifications. Thirdly I can honestly say I DO NOT envy your position by any stretch of the imagination, and you have my heart felt sympaties (no sarcasm) regarding how much you put into this game.

Concerning funding of the servers, maybe it is time to look at this from a more financially viable point of view. Why do you need so many on at the same time? A 2k3 server? Maybe its time to fully commit to 2k4? By whittling away just 1 or 2 of the various
servers you do manage, maybe your work load would be less and the cost of running them would be aleviated somewhat? Perhaps by looking at which servers are LEAST used/ populated, you'd decrease your work load. Maybe there are other options which have not occured to me that you or others in DW maybe aware of.

Lastly, I mean no disrepect when I say this, but if public funding of the server really barely helps you and DW at all, then why not just cancel it altogether, whilst bringing the total number of servers you guys run to a minimal? When you open finances to the public, you are sooner or later going to get public scrutiny, criticism as well as the occasional compliment. Kinda like when a company has an IPO, they now become responsible and answerable to the public that invested in them.

If you don't love what you do, why do it? Toxic, you have my appreciation, alongst with my sincere and heartfelt sympathy. And as I previously wrote, apology accepted.


APEX.

First of all, here's what happened. Minus came up and was played before you even showed up on the server APEX, but it went by in one round. A lot of people were not happy about that, so the admin forced it again. Unfortunately, that one dragged on into two OT rounds after that. By then, a lot of people who were on the server from the beginning had enough (three rounds of minus) and so the admin forced a new map.

I'm sorry you showed up only for the last round, but it had already been played for three rounds prior to that.

So now I have asked my admins to never force a map again. It's obvious that you cannot please everyone even part of the time, so the server will run as is, no changes. If we decide to add another version of Minus, then so be it. Until that happens, it (or any other map for that matter) plays when it plays and if it's not there when you want it, the server is at fault, and the issue is with ME. The only exception to this will be the new maps that we are all working very hard on to modify so you have some new maps to play on. We may need to force them once in a while to evaluate them.

So APEX, I want to apologize. But before I do, let me give you some background.

Here are some definitions I'd like you to understand first:

1. In game Admin: A person who has volunteered to sacrifice his own enjoyment to always have half an eye out for cheaters or trouble makers, knowing full well he may have to sacrifice his game completely to drop to spec to take care of some business. He does this to provide you a better (hopefully) experience, and he does this at the expense of his own game. And sometimes he tries to gague the feeling on a server, and tries to do what will make most people happy and sometimes puts up maps because he thinks will make people happy. And anytime he does something, it is scrutinized and ridiculed sometimes in a public forum. You have to be partially crazy to take this job. You get no pay, and you get few accolades when you do a good job.

2. Server admin: A person who spends a lot of money and a lot of time to make a place where (hopefully) people will enjoy playing. A good server admin will work closely with the community to try and determine what THEY like and cater to their wishes. He sacrifices a tremendous amount of his own personal and playing time to tweak the server, scout out new maps/mods/mutators, keeping up on hacking issues, talking to anyone and everyone to find ways to give his/her players more enjoyment. You have to be completely bonkers to take this job.

OK, so now that we've gotten that out of the way, lets talk finances. I've probably spent as much over the last 2.5 years as a decent Honday Civic would cost. And that's just hardware. Never mind the monthly bills which exceed $400. And have you ever overnighted a 60 pound server before? Go price that out.

I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination. I would say I'm upper middle class (and thanks to taxes, probably middle, middle class). So where do I get the money that I *DO* have? Some of you younger folks will be amused to know that I am on an allowance. Yes, married men revert back to teenagers (some never grow up). In order to keep finances in place in a family, you have to have allowances. My allowance goes towrd my weekly expenditures, and anything left over is mine. Well with the current financial load of this community, I cannot pay for everything with my allowance. There are some weeks when I brown bag my lunch because I know it will be tight. My wife laughs at me because when she sees the bags she knows:

A. There's hardware coming in the mail or
B. Donations are light that month

There are weeks when I think how terrible a father I am, and how I should be putting this money towards my kid's college. To allay those guilty feelings, I tell myself that this is my money, and I can do what I please with it. The rest comes out of the household budget. That's usually how I justify it (oh yes, I have two kids to feed as well.)

So I do need donations to keep everything running (and oh yeah, somehow have to save 4 or 5 thousand for a brand new server that will run 2k7) and I have never been anything but grateful for them. It's what allows me to offer you more entertainment choices.

So if I had only my allowance to work with, I would probably have to close everything but SV. So that means there would be no more:

After the lights go out
TAM servers
To Serve Man
UT2K3 server
Private Scrim Server for the SVAs
Public TS server
TAM tournament with (albeit lousy prizes)

So that's finances, let talk about time. Go out to UTstats and see how much playing time I have per week. I usually take Saturday nights off, so I get in a nice chunk of time, but other than that, I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 hours a week. I'd love to log on and play for 3 or 4 hours a night, but I'm usually busy:

1. Working on the servers
2. Working on the website
3. Talking to the folks in the forums
4. Scouting new maps for the several different servers
5. Evaluating changes to existing maps
6. Fixing/evaluating hardware for the next server
7. Troubleshooting issues
8. Helping people with passwords, etc. on the website
9. Answering emails and PMS (abeit slowly)
10. And finally dealing with "situations"

So in a nutshell, every penny I personally have goes toward this community, and every spare minute I have that's my time I spend on this community.

So that's the background behind what got us here today. So let me say in closing, APEX, I am truly sorry, from the bottom of my heart, that you missed that map.

Rich (TW)

[DW_Hornet]

Apex, im going to bite my lip becuase if i start this will be a 2 page post.

[Bean]

Apex, im going to bite my lip becuase if i start this will be a 2 page post.

Agreed..... Similar thoughts here.

I will say this: Apex, drop it before you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

[DW_e_aLpHa]

-- Great News -- :cheers:

What do you know ... the so beloved map Minus Tank me up is available for download .. for EVERYONE who just can't live without it !! Yeah just clik this link and you will be able to play it 24/7 on your pc .. Just like I do with Dreamus -- isn't that just great!!??

http://www.clandw.com/Download/index.ph ... p-Gorz.exe

Just Download the file and double Click To install the map and off you go!!! Play it until you become a zombi and or - Warn you - .. maybe die and go to hell where you will meet me of course :cyclopsani: .. Got to love Instan Action .. Baby!!! oh yeah!!! .. :bounce:

[DW_ToxicWaste]

I just realized how tired I am....

[Zax_Gentoo_Box]

If I had money I'd mail it to you Toxic... but sadly, I'm broke. I found a dollar on the floor the other day though! Ummm... hmm... You're my favorite DW>Toxic_Waste. And I don't just say that to anyone. And look! The people that want another Minus outnumber the people that don't by 1! This seems strangely like the 2000 elecitons in Florida.... or was that 2002? w/e. Peace people, peace. Save the violence and hatred for the game.

[DW_damn_weasel]

Is good to know how things works, it really makes you appreciate what other do for us and it's highly appreciated.
Once again, thanks Toxic and all you ppl that make all of this possible.
:cheers:

[DW_Skaank]

Here are some more choices from the original map's author:

"ONS-Minus-TankMeUp
The Titan Onslaught forumites weren't happy when Koutso had enough of all the betas and threw a 'final' edition out. So they eventually decided on two versions; 'Classic' and 'IonEdition'. These have been uploaded and are available here:"

http://www.outpt.co.uk/map003.php

Please add both so there will be 3 versions!!!