Lets talk Health Care/Why we are going to kill old people.

[DW_Mobius]

So what it boiles down to over the last couple posts is we can spend our money to kill people in other countries or take care of our own ? I vote for world peace .

So, you're of the "two wrongs make one right" train of thought then? I don't think anyone thinks we should be over there right now, not even most republicans. The issue at hand over there is how to we withdraw without wasting all of our efforts thusfar?

To be honest, no one here knows what we're talking about. Unfortunately, that gives us one thing in common with the government. This thread is honestly rather pointless. It seems like it was created simply to use 1 person's statements to stereotype all republicans into war-mongering nazi's than debating healthcare.

If you ask me, we're not to far off from an ideal system, there is just one MAJOR fatal flaw. Regulation. With some heavy regulations set in place, costs can be driven down drastically, by restricting what companies can charge for what should be a F!#$%#$@ screw and some soap, allowing more people to afford insurance in the first place, thus saving money and helping stimulate the economy with the excess funds, also saving several TRILLIONs of dollars on a fundamentally flawed social system.

Debt isn't something we should ignore, we WILL pay for our "free" healthcare.

[DW_SupernovA]

Come on, you guys are kiddin right? America is doing a good thing for their citizens, they're giving people with no insurance the chance to get healthy.
Example: Bob has no insurance,no money, and has a real nasty flu. So he goes to the doctor,but to bad the doctor cant help him if he doesnt have money. But now with the health-care-plan, bob can get help. So maybe he has to wait a bit in the waitingroom, but he's getting help. Before there was no chance for bob to consult a doctor.

you know what, who the hell is this bob? is he a genuine hard-working individual who was unlucky and didn't get a high paying job or a job that didn't provide insurance? does he have some terminal illness that he had no control over? is he making an honest effort to provide for himself? is he in debt because he wanted a degree to try to make a living for himself and now he is having to pay off student loans? is he under 18, still in high school, and can't get a job and doesn't have good parents? is he even a legal citizen? if these are true, i have somewhat less of a problem paying for his healthcare.


but let's take a look at the other side of this. is bob some hobo who has bummed around his entire life not giving a damn or even trying to get a job? is he 30 and still living with his parents because he was simply too lazy to get himself a decent job? did bob spend all of his money on crack and prostitutes instead of paying bills and taking care of things? is he spending his money on material items he doesn't really need and then whining he doesn't have the money to go the doctor? is he paying taxes as well? he does these things and then the goverment has the audacity to tell me that my taxes are going to be raised to pay for his healthcare? that makes me have a huge problem with socialized healthcare.

i think agree with mobius on this one. (but shhh...don't tell him :D)

[JulianKingOfNothing]

[quote=DW_Supernova]
but let's take a look at the other side of this. is bob some hobo who has bummed around his entire life not giving a damn or even trying to get a job? is he 30 and still living with his parents because he was simply too lazy to get himself a decent job? did bob spend all of his money on crack and prostitutes instead of paying bills and taking care of things? is he spending his money on material items he doesn't really need and then whining he doesn't have the money to go the doctor? is he paying taxes as well? he does these things and then the goverment has the audacity to tell me that my taxes are going to be raised to pay for his healthcare? that makes me have a huge problem with socialized healthcare.
[/quote]

Bob is a crackhead :sbigsmile:

Jk, but no law is flawless at the beginning, especially with those 'Human Right Organisations' claiming everyone is the same, hobos, rich folks. Now don't get me wrong, they are all human, but I agree with you supernova, If they don't try getting a job, and pay taxes for their own health, than you shouldn't be paying taxes for them. MAYBE the Obama-administration didn't want to give insurance to hobos, but didn't have a choice because of Human Right. And if they had a choise, I'd say start a petition to 'discriminate' those people who dont pay taxes. (I know, sounds like a childish solution, but everythings possible in America :cheers: )

[DW_Bomzin]

I had an epiphany today . Why not just go apply for medicare and when they tell you that your not old enough throw this at them .

The Age Discrimination Act of 1975 prohibits discrimination based on age in programs or activities that receive federal financial assistance. The U.S. Department of Education gives financial assistance to schools and colleges. The Age Discrimination regulation describes conduct that violates the Act. The Age Discrimination regulation is enforced by the Office for Civil Rights and is in the Code of Federal Regulations at 34 CFR Part 110.

Problem solved let them work out the rest of the details .

I was never trying to throw all republicans/conservatives under one roof but it is far more then one person that is perpetuating the rhetoric. The fact is they,republicans, don't want heavy regulations either . There plan as I understand it consists of medical saving accounts , tax free and some other incentive programs . Non of witch go to cost control . I havn't heard a republican yet offer up regulations . Your proving to be more of a independent then a republican .

I don't think that most have a problem wanting to pay for there health care. Like stated before medical bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in America , 50% of them have insurance . So even if we count close to almost 50 million not having insurance the number becomes far greater with those also being under insured . It's a major problem that was totally ignored by the past 8 years of republican rule, if they wanted to do something major towards the cause they had their chance but didn't take it . The people that were in power were happy doing nothing.

As far as the two wrongs making a right not the case , with the amount of money spent in Iraq we could of easily covered every man , woman and child in the states and had money left over and as far as withdrawing without wasting our efforts thus far , only time will tell, but Iraq is already starting on a downward spiral as we withdrawl , violence is escallating and I would lay a bet it's only a matter of time before they are back to were they started . You cannot force democracy on them , there religion doesn't allow it .

Properly laying down a system for a decent health care system and spending the money were it should go will help many for along time to come , Oh and the whole point to this thread . They are not creating death panels and per the crazy radio this morning they are not starting up interment camps for out of line conservatives , although not a bad idea :bigsmurf:

[DW_Mobius]

I havn't heard a republican yet offer up regulations . Your proving to be more of a independent then a republican .

Never claimed any affiliation. My politial viewpoints are my own, and you wouldn't be the first to say I sound like an Independant. If I have to vote Democratic or Republican, I tend to vote conservative. My point however is that it seems, from the outside looking in, that there seems to be a good amount of republican bashing going on rather than discussion.

As far as the two wrongs making a right not the case , with the amount of money spent in Iraq we could of easily covered every man , woman and child in the states and had money left over and as far as withdrawing without wasting our efforts thus far , only time will tell, but Iraq is already starting on a downward spiral as we withdrawl , violence is escallating and I would lay a bet it's only a matter of time before they are back to were they started .

$677,732,315,046 is a good rough estimate of the cost of the war in Iraq from the beginning to the moment I typed this(~8 years). The cost of Socialized healthcare is predicted to be roughly 1.5 trillion dollars over the next ten years.

Do a little math and you get this:
$84,716,539,380 per year in Iraq.
$150,000,000,000 per year on socialized healthcare.

I understand your point, but the numbers don't quite support your statement. I agree we shouldn't be in Iraq as well, but the ship has sailed on that one, hasn't it?

[DW_Bomzin]

I thought the new house budget had it down to 600M .

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
To date, $915.1 billion dollars have been allocated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The national, state, and local numbers we provide are based on the total approved amounts through the end of Fiscal Year 2009.

In addition to this approved amount, the FY2010 budget shows a $130 billion request for more war spending. This would bring total war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan to more than $1 trillion. When all FY2010 war-related amounts are approved, we will adjust the counter so that it reaches the new total at the end of FY2010.

If you should compare the amount displayed on the numbers in our information sheets with the Cost of War counter, please note that the information sheets include all war spending approved to date, the same number that the counter will reach at the end of the 2009 fiscal year.

Thats just the cost of active wars and the price figured in for our millitary , not even sure if thats counting the salaries of the 600+ blackwater type firms we are employing nor the costs of running bases in other countries that may or may not be needed .

[DW_Bomzin]

but let's take a look at the other side of this. is bob some hobo who has bummed around his entire life not giving a damn or even trying to get a job? is he 30 and still living with his parents because he was simply too lazy to get himself a decent job? did bob spend all of his money on crack and prostitutes instead of paying bills and taking care of things? is he spending his money on material items he doesn't really need and then whining he doesn't have the money to go the doctor? is he paying taxes as well? he does these things and then the goverment has the audacity to tell me that my taxes are going to be raised to pay for his healthcare? that makes me have a huge problem with socialized healthcare.

As far as bob goes and those types most you already do pay for cause they get on SS or some other type of program or you pay through your premiums when they show up in the emergency room and can't be turned away. You already do pay for them . Either that or they land themselves in jail and not only do you end up paying for their health care but there housing as well .

[DW_Mobius]

I thought the new house budget had it down to 600M .

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
To date, $915.1 billion dollars have been allocated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The national, state, and local numbers we provide are based on the total approved amounts through the end of Fiscal Year 2009.

In addition to this approved amount, the FY2010 budget shows a $130 billion request for more war spending. This would bring total war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan to more than $1 trillion. When all FY2010 war-related amounts are approved, we will adjust the counter so that it reaches the new total at the end of FY2010.

If you should compare the amount displayed on the numbers in our information sheets with the Cost of War counter, please note that the information sheets include all war spending approved to date, the same number that the counter will reach at the end of the 2009 fiscal year.

Thats just the cost of active wars and the price figured in for our millitary , not even sure if thats counting the salaries of the 600+ blackwater type firms we are employing nor the costs of running bases in other countries that may or may not be needed .

Could be lower now, however, that 600M seems very unrealistic, who knows.

My figures were for the war in Iraq only, I have mixed feelings on Afghanistan. Anyone willing to cross the pond to strike the mainland deserves to get pwnt, and no, I don't buy the conspiracy theories that we blew up the WTC.

[DW_Mobius]

As far as bob goes and those types most you already do pay for cause they get on SS or some other type of program or you pay through your premiums when they show up in the emergency room and can't be turned away. You already do pay for them . Either that or they land themselves in jail and not only do you end up paying for their health care but there housing as well .

So since we already pay for their housing and SS, we should buy them a steak diner too right?

Here's another factoid:

An overwhelming number of Americans, are happy with their health insurance, INCLUDING Americans without it.

Most of the polls show an 80-20 divide. When did we start forcing the majority to the will of the minority?

[DW_Damaged]

I suppose you can't have a serious discussion with some people.

Savage it seems to me that you are all for the government to give people everything for free. I for one work my ass off to ensure I can and will have what I need to survive. More people today want everything handed to them. I know we are in a recesssion and people are losing there jobs but if someone wants to work there are jobs out there. Back in 1998 I lost my $50,000 a year job and couln't find work but I had a mortgage to pay and I had to eat. I ended up pressure washing and painting for a friend of mine just to make $300 a week to pay the bills. Today people arent willing to sacrifice or they think that type of work is below them. Even when I lost my job I did not collect unemployment because I didnt want to be given something for free. I got off my ass and worked from 7am until 7pm.

I said it before and will say it again. I am not willing to sacrifice what I have and turn it over to the government because they can't do most of what they do now right. Look back to the late 70's up to 26 million people did not have health insurance, I dont remember the people wanting the government to provide it for them. In the last 80's there was up to 37 million people without health insurance and again I don't remember the people wanted it from the government. But as soon as the government talks about it and how wonderful things will be people like you jump on it like it's a going to save the world. Government has no business running health care and in the end will shift the cost of health care to everything else we need. Including food, Clothes, a roof over our heads ect.. ect.. ect...