Invasion Proposed Changes

[DW_ACY]

Your alll just adren haters!!! :blackeye: Don't hate the player hate the game! remember out the gate adren masters are the weakest players on the map for oh about 100 levels!

[Chavez]

I agree with Desko. I mean, that you have to work long and hard for it doesn't change the fact that they're ludicrous. A level 100 Adren master vs level 200 Weapon master would still have a predictable outcome.

I would like to see an artifact that only Weapon Masters can spawn and that greatly increase fighting abilities. But, only useable when the weapon master is near 25% of his life, and offcourse it's only temporarily. Call it... Frenzy or Rage or.... :D

BTW, will there be a Super Saiyan Artifact? :drunken:

[d2frob]

Adren masters get their ass kicked with the arrival of the sliths

[Desko]

What happened to Wail's ideas? What do we think of those? I thought they were pretty good actually.

Seriously, we need a different thread for the "balancing the classes" chat.

[d2frob]

Ok, just played 16 waves on monster arena with cress and whippersnapper. All i can say is things have got silly. The classes were never the problem, the fast adren spawns and safe spots were. Of course adren masters seemed overpowered, they had fast adren spawn and double magic. Honestly the double magic does (read did) make sense, vorpal +22 was a selfish weapon.

The most fun i've had on this server has been on 1on1 mixer and spacejunk. Mixer was most fun the first time it was put on the server, me acy and a few lower levels had a great time trying to hold the small room where the lift is by blocking the lift and spamming the entrance, it was challenging and exciting. Spacejunk was fun before hiding place were found (and yes i hold my hand up to using them at times) because everyone had to work together and hold the tunnels.

Honestly i'd like to say that about the other maps but I can't because they're just dull with safe rooms and fast adren spawns.

Since the changes (sliths etc) adren masters have been seriously nerfed, adren drains in seconds and poison goes through globe. At lvl 175 i get my ass kicked so I feel sorry for the rest that are below because they must last hardly any time at all.

Essentially I am trying to say the class balances were only an issue on the maps with fast adren spawns and safe rooms, other imbalances tended to be though the poor use of stat points. I'm not claiming my builds for medic or adren are perfect by any means but i've started again and again to get it right. I believe the adren and safe rooms are there through a general feeling the map must be beatable by low levels. Perhaps it's impossible to have a complete balance that lets low levels play as much as higher levels. A suggestion is to raise the starting level, therefore removing the need to have the dull waves or the incredibly easy maps.

Thoughts?

[DW_WailofSuicide]

I don't really want this to start into a flame war on which classes are better. I'd rather have some constructive suggestions.

I've heard mention of bringing the Double Magic Modifier back, but modifying it to not work with Vorpal weapons. This is something that I could do.

I think Weapons Masters deserve something to give them a little more control over their weaponry, but I'm not exactly sure what that would be.

There are plenty of Medic suggestions in this thread already, so that doesn't need to be rehashed.

[d2frob]

It depends on the monster situation, wether they are all staying, certain ones going etc. Medic is currently the most powerful class imo.

Is it possible to rig the loaded weapons so that only the actually good ones show up. eg no lucky, quickfoot etc

Also, the first section of ability changes i believe could all be implemented without any inbalance etc. (all great ideas too)

[DW_Cheapshot]

I beg to differ, about the medic being the strongest.
I have both a medic and wm at a reasonably high level.
Now that the problem with the mine mutator has been corrected you
are not going to see medics racing ahead like RM did.
In my opinion the medic is the weakest class. I play all 3 as you know.
A medic tops out in the 150 level range and will not continue to grow.
The adren and wm are just hitting there stride and getting stronger at
level 200 and above. A medic with 1 inf healing weapon I have always
heard it is roughly a +3 is no comparison to a 5 or 6 null or vorp.
As a wm I almost always have 1 healing weapon.
Only my opinion of course.

[d2frob]

I managed to get a few games in today and basically almost the entire server either switched to their medic account or started a new one. Adren masters can't take the the energy sliths on like other monsters. With the exception of titan rocks, medics are near invincible (provided a low level is on). I play a lvl 175 adren master and 151 medic, the medic kicks the adren masters ass. WM i only got up to lvl 60 something to try out loaded weapons and personally i just couldn't be bothered to spend the time getting db etc up so I can't speak personally for wm's.

I do agree medics top out early but neo and brain still manage to kick ass.

I do believe that if changes are going to be made then something as to stay the same. It's like a science experiment where you change two variables at the same time, you'll never know what's causing an imbalance or what it is that needs to be tweaked.

[Desko]

The most fun i've had on this server has been on 1on1 mixer and spacejunk. Mixer was most fun the first time it was put on the server, me acy and a few lower levels had a great time trying to hold the small room where the lift is by blocking the lift and spamming the entrance, it was challenging and exciting. Spacejunk was fun before hiding place were found (and yes i hold my hand up to using them at times) because everyone had to work together and hold the tunnels.

Essentially I am trying to say the class balances were only an issue on the maps with fast adren spawns and safe rooms, other imbalances tended to be though the poor use of stat points. I'm not claiming my builds for medic or adren are perfect by any means but i've started again and again to get it right. I believe the adren and safe rooms are there through a general feeling the map must be beatable by low levels. Perhaps it's impossible to have a complete balance that lets low levels play as much as higher levels. A suggestion is to raise the starting level, therefore removing the need to have the dull waves or the incredibly easy maps.

Thoughts?

I like Rob's view. Almost all "Secret Rooms" should be taken out of the maps in my opinion. Rooms that are impenetrable and completely closed off make Invasion boring. It would be like if aliens invaded NYC and everyone hid in a little room and poked their heads out once in awhile to fire a couple bullets.

Instead of secret rooms there should be bases. What I mean by a base is basically a place where you're hiding behind cover, but are still vulnerable to attacks from other entrances. An idyllic base would be a fairly wide hallway with two chest high walls on each side. Attacks coming from one end of the hall still can hit people on the other end, so people have to watch each other's backs.

Also, Adrenaline Masters wouldn't be as powerful if they couldn't completely customize their weapon set to whatever they want. Taking away the fast Adrenaline spawns fixes this with almost no work.

I've heard mention of bringing the Double Magic Modifier back, but modifying it to not work with Vorpal weapons. This is something that I could do.

I think Weapons Masters deserve something to give them a little more control over their weaponry, but I'm not exactly sure what that would be.

I personally think that the Double Magic modifier is fine off. My opinion.

I'm going with Cheap on this one. Weapon Masters should be given a Max Magic Modifier and a Magic +1 Modifier so they can increase the efficiency of the weapons they already have.



As for Medics, what did people think of some of my ideas? Come on. Nothing would make Medics more fun than being able to use four different Medical Weapons, each with a different teammate-helping function. And it would give Medics more stuff to put points into so they don't top-off so fast.