It's been 5-6 months since I played regularly but since coming back I notice vorpal got a big nerf. Sucks ( :scry: ), but I can live with it. However, vorpal sniper rifles seem like a joke. I had a +10 vorpal snipe last night and gave it a whirl, and it gives a staggering... 1 xp per shot while triggering the vorpal effect once out of every 10-30 shots. Ouch. That's just not right.
Would it be possible to get this beefed a bit?
Vorpal sniper rifle... ehhh.
Uh no... the sniper had an extra ordinary vorpal rating that had been turned up. It is now back to normal. It just took that long to get the fix. It is as it should be.
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Er... okay? Why should it be so ridiculously poor at both killing AND making xp? 1 xp per shot on wave 14+ monsters? Triggers once out of every 10 to 30 shots? Who would use that? Why would anyone use it over pretty much any other weapon?
Just trying to understand the rationalization of why this weapon should be used if it A: makes no XP and B: barely triggers to make up for that piddly 1 xp per shot (which it doesn't).
I'm not saying its vorpal rate needs an increase necessarily (though a tiny beef would be nice), but how about upping the XP per shot? It's a slow firing weapon, third slowest in the game behind lightning gun and AVRIL. Surely you can see how that makes it an awful weapon to use, even if it's a "mighty" +10 vorpal?
Just trying to understand the rationalization of why this weapon should be used if it A: makes no XP and B: barely triggers to make up for that piddly 1 xp per shot (which it doesn't).
I'm not saying its vorpal rate needs an increase necessarily (though a tiny beef would be nice), but how about upping the XP per shot? It's a slow firing weapon, third slowest in the game behind lightning gun and AVRIL. Surely you can see how that makes it an awful weapon to use, even if it's a "mighty" +10 vorpal?
Last edited by Scumsberg on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DW_FrankyTheFly
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Vorpal effect is now back to normal. The new algorithm had a linear tendency making the vorpal effect equivalent at +6, +10 or +22 (Witch was wrong). The old algorithm for vorpal had an exponential tendency and work in a way that +10 vorpal VORP LESS but +22 vorpal (acheive with the double magic modifier from the Adrenaline class) vorp ALOT MORE (like every 3 sec). Its better this way, because only high level AM have access to vorpal +22 while low level player should not vorp like crasy and get ridiculous XP. It is WAY more balance now.Scumsberg wrote:Er... okay? Why should it be so ridiculously poor at both killing AND making xp? 1 xp per shot on wave 14+ monsters? Triggers once out of every 10 to 30 shots? Who would use that? Why would anyone use it over pretty much any other weapon?
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DW_WailofSuicide
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Well, balanced is a question of opinion and scope.
An old-style +6 Vorpal will trigger 0% of the time. A +10 Vorpal will trigger 4% of the time. A +22 Vorpal will trigger 16% of the time. This is a linear function (Modifier-MinModifier, or f(x) minus a constant), but it makes the Vorpal effect pretty rare unless you are DMMing it. In other words, not that good unless you're an Adren Master. I mean, it's the best Shock Rifle bar none, but it really does kind of suck that you can't even Vorpal anything with a +6, and don't even get a really reasonable chance until +10.
The version that I made started out at +6 with ~4% chance, at 10 goes to 8% chance, and caps out at like 12% chance. This is in addition to doing some firerate modifications to Vorpal chance frequency which meant that using Vorpal Snipers and Lightning guns had a higher chance of Vorpaling per-shot than the faster-firing Shock Rifle. In general I thought/think this is a weapon which is more balanced for every class, as opposed to the old-style Vorpal which allows an AM to get 4x the Vorpal chance that anyone else can get using his "Double" Magic Modifier.
An old-style +6 Vorpal will trigger 0% of the time. A +10 Vorpal will trigger 4% of the time. A +22 Vorpal will trigger 16% of the time. This is a linear function (Modifier-MinModifier, or f(x) minus a constant), but it makes the Vorpal effect pretty rare unless you are DMMing it. In other words, not that good unless you're an Adren Master. I mean, it's the best Shock Rifle bar none, but it really does kind of suck that you can't even Vorpal anything with a +6, and don't even get a really reasonable chance until +10.
The version that I made started out at +6 with ~4% chance, at 10 goes to 8% chance, and caps out at like 12% chance. This is in addition to doing some firerate modifications to Vorpal chance frequency which meant that using Vorpal Snipers and Lightning guns had a higher chance of Vorpaling per-shot than the faster-firing Shock Rifle. In general I thought/think this is a weapon which is more balanced for every class, as opposed to the old-style Vorpal which allows an AM to get 4x the Vorpal chance that anyone else can get using his "Double" Magic Modifier.
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JulianKingOfNothing
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About that 1xp/shot, I think it depends on how much DB and WS you have. I tried a regular sniper, and it gave 4-6 xp/shot
He's talking about when you vorp. You will receive only 1 xp when vorping.JulianKingOfNothing wrote:About that 1xp/shot, I think it depends on how much DB and WS you have. I tried a regular sniper, and it gave 4-6 xp/shot
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No, I'm not talking about 1 XP per vorpal, I'm saying it gives 1 per regular shot. I'm a level 150 WM with 349 DR and 290 DB and Tony's Creations on wave 15 give 1 XP per regular shot with a +10 vorpal sniper rifle. Actually it gives 1 on the first shot, 2 on the second, 1 on the third, etc..
I feel like the "vorpal" part of this discussion isn't the real point - the real point is that the XP per minute of a +10 vorpal sniper rifle is so abyssmal that its low vorpal rate doesn't make up for it. It's the third slowest firing weapon in the game AND obscures your vision with a puff of smoke, which can make it difficult to even land the shots for that 1 XP sometimes. Just about any other weapon in my inventory of level 5 loaded weapons will blow a +10 vorpal snipe out of the water for XP making.
1 XP per shot just doesn't make it worth using. Do you namsayin'?
Edit: Juice and I made a thread related to XP per minute ratios on weapons months back, but it wasn't well received. My suggestion would be to implement something that tracks weapons based on their percentage of use. That would quickly highlight weapons that are lackluster and probably in need of tweaking. AVRIL comes to mind for reasons similar to the ones above.
I feel like the "vorpal" part of this discussion isn't the real point - the real point is that the XP per minute of a +10 vorpal sniper rifle is so abyssmal that its low vorpal rate doesn't make up for it. It's the third slowest firing weapon in the game AND obscures your vision with a puff of smoke, which can make it difficult to even land the shots for that 1 XP sometimes. Just about any other weapon in my inventory of level 5 loaded weapons will blow a +10 vorpal snipe out of the water for XP making.
1 XP per shot just doesn't make it worth using. Do you namsayin'?
Edit: Juice and I made a thread related to XP per minute ratios on weapons months back, but it wasn't well received. My suggestion would be to implement something that tracks weapons based on their percentage of use. That would quickly highlight weapons that are lackluster and probably in need of tweaking. AVRIL comes to mind for reasons similar to the ones above.
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DW_FrankyTheFly
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Thx for the info on vorp Wail, but i taugh vorpal +6 was 1% and +10 was 5% chance insted of 0% and 4% (at least thats what Druid said in their info..).
Having a DYNAMIC adjustement of the monster level make this game more chalenging. High level monster (200 lvl +) have so much DR that it is actually impossible to damage them and to get XP. Surviving high level monsters is hard but WM and AM have both a strategy to survive it, its all in my WM and AM character building guide i wrote.
The amount of XP you get by Damaging (aka shooting) the monster will depend on the level of the monsters (yes mmonster have level). The level of the monsters is DYNAMIC (it can change while playing) because it is based on the lowest level player ALIVE (hit sound tell U when monsters lvl change btw). If alot of low level players are playing and are not dead, then the monster are easy to kill and receive alot more damage (meaning in this situation a vorpal sniper will probably give U 3 to 4 XP per shot). If only high level player are connected or if alot of low level player are connected but THEY ARE ALL DEAD, the level of the monster will probably be high (meaning at this time, a vorpal sniper may only give U 1 or even 0 XP per shot).Scumsberg wrote:I'm a level 150 WM with 349 DR and 290 DB and Tony's Creations on wave 15 give 1 XP per regular shot with a +10 vorpal sniper rifle. Actually it gives 1 on the first shot, 2 on the second, 1 on the third, etc..
Having a DYNAMIC adjustement of the monster level make this game more chalenging. High level monster (200 lvl +) have so much DR that it is actually impossible to damage them and to get XP. Surviving high level monsters is hard but WM and AM have both a strategy to survive it, its all in my WM and AM character building guide i wrote.
I got the reflex of the fly, now catch me if you can!