New Monsters Roster & Updated Pets feedback !

Check out Death Warrant's Invasion Server
tasty
Camper
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:57 am

Hi DW,

Went in with my medic and verified the waves.

Good
1. Monsters with green laser deal great damage.
2. Gunwalker damage increase.
3. Pets survival rate increase.
4. Brute new projectile cool.
5. Harder to rambo with medic, alot of self healing now.
6. Nice franky globe fly.

Bad
1. Combination pet of skaarj & elite mercenary overpowered. (see attached score)
2. Those green laser nulled effect are annoying, could tone it down.
3. Skaarj seem to give insane fast xp on later wave. Wave 12 - 15 etc
4. Franky globe fly can be impossible to kill but easy kill with pets and lot of easy holy shit.

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DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

Thanks for the detailed feedback.

Going to need to see what the general effectiveness of the monsters are with these new settings before coming to any conclusions. They do seem a little strong - I was doing pretty well for myself in the 2 games I played on my Medic last night. At the same time though, Pets really ought to be worthwhile, and this is the first time I've ever felt like those hundreds of points invested were worth anything. My biggest concern is just getting a decent balance between the monsters - At the moment it definitely seems like Skaarj or Elite Mercs are better options than Razor Flies, for instance.
DW_TigerRaptorFX
DW Clan Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:16 pm

I know while Wail is hard at work on the MM servers. But there are some concerns on the direction these servers are heading. One of the main issues is the decline in players ever since the updates started to take place. Along with many veteran players that are now less active or just stopped showing up completely.

Now while people will always have something to complain about. The largest complaint is regarding the dino pack. Many people like them, and many seeing them as a nuisances. Personally I'm one of them who is getting a little of sick the dinos. But the game play has gotten way to boring with so many around. Just my personal opinion.
DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

TigerRaptorFX wrote:I know while Wail is hard at work on the MM servers. But there are some concerns on the direction these servers are heading. One of the main issues is the decline in players ever since the updates started to take place. Along with many veteran players that are now less active or just stopped showing up completely.

Now while people will always have something to complain about. The largest complaint is regarding the dino pack. Many people like them, and many seeing them as a nuisances. Personally I'm one of them who is getting a little of sick the dinos. But the game play has gotten way to boring with so many around. Just my personal opinion.
My question is, what's boring about them compared to other monsters?

Dryosaurus - Pretty unexceptional, sure, but it's wave 2. Get some headshots.
Parasaurlopholus - Okay I guess, about the same as a Brute but bigger and headshottable.
Edmontosaurus - Same as above.
Albertosaurus - It's not a Goro, but then Goros were pretty ridiculous on Wave 4. Same idea but doesn't instantly own lower level players.
Dilophosaurus. Unique attack. Seems cool to me, they are annoying if they can chain petrify you, but then that's about all they can do, not a big threat in themselves.
Allosaurus - Same thing, very dangerous when they show up with Titans, but not in and of themselves a big threat. Definitely gotta keep a trans handy.
Ankylosaurus - Probably the least interesting Dino on the roster to me, just because they have low mobility. I do like that they do reward aiming in that hitting the upper part of their body results in less damage than hitting their unarmored lower bit, that's the only distinguishing feature they've really got currently.
Stellasaurus, Triceratops - Simple melee focused monsters basically identical to the Goro. I wouldn't mind giving them some kind of cool feature, but they're already quite deadly... Have a similar mechanic to the Ankylosaurus where damage to the armor plated head is reduced compared to the rest of their body.
Spinosaurus - Very happy with these guys, love seeing their attacks bounce around and get into hiding places.


Compare to (running down the list of non-Titan, non-Queen monsters showing up in the old config)-

Metroid - Basically identical to Dryosaurus *
Giant Gasbag - In theory, a self-replicating flying ranged attacker. In reality, more of a corpse than an enemy. *
Brute - Standard medium sized ranged attacker.*
Ice Skaarj - Standard player-sized ranged/melee attacker.*
Mole - Underground thing is cool and unique. Otherwise your basic melee monster with piercing damage. *
Fleshbinder - Unique visual/audio effects but he doesn't bring anything else to the table.
Goro - Melee monster with piercing damage. Same as many dinos. *
Angus - Melee monster with piercing damage. Same as many dinos / Goro.
Enlightened - Flying ranged attacker. *
Raptors A, B, C- Melee monsters with more/less HP/Dmg. *
Gunwalker - The eyeball thing is neat, but on wave 7? *
Badgers - Not for wave 7, nor anything really unique about them compared to any number of other player-model based gun-using monsters.
Soul Sucker Nali - Teleportation would be a bigger deal if Monster Mover weren't already doing it for all kinds of monsters. And the attack is unique but they aren't a wave 7 monster.*
Slith, all varieties - Present in the current wave setup.*
Seekers - Present in the current wave setup.*

* Represented on the current wave setup.

So basically -- All of these monsters that are on the old config are also represented on the new one, except 3, Angus, Badgers, and Fleshbinders. I don't really see how the dinosaurs are in any way overpowering the variety of monsters in general.
The exception would be - We're not using PB&J Titans, Grawlix Titans, or Blood Queens and Tonys Creations. So there's some lack of variety there for sure, but I'm not sure those monsters are worth bringing back. Grawlix Titans had a unique feature in how their rocks behaved, but the little zaps their rocks gave off were trivial (5dmg?). Tonys Creations also had a unique feature in that they could perform all kinds of status effects, but that was a little silly and broken with Quickfoot.

If I'm not getting something please feel free to articulate more of what's unsatisfactory to you about the current monster config.
MMA_T1mesh1fter
Pro but Noob
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Venlo, close to lalaland
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DW_WailofSuicide wrote: My question is, what's boring about them compared to other monsters?
It's not that their attacks or behavior is boring, cause many dino abilities are actually pretty neat, the petri rays, the gumballs(things get a nickname fast i notice:P) they prove to be quite a challenge sometimes.
The thing which makes it boring is because it are all dino's, 1 dino or 2 dino species would not have mattered, but it are way too many, besides that dino's don't really fit the monster mash feeling (but thats just my feeling about it) they replace some of the great monsters we had before(gief back badgers, angus blades, Tony's creation(maybe weird, but those always made it a challenging 15th wave), that gives me some kind of homesick feeling.. as if somethings missing, i guess i'm not the only one with that look on it.. cause everyday i hear people talking about it online,some are happy with the changes, some don't care and some share my opinion.
Like tiger stated, since the first updates to the monster roster, more and more players stop showing up online, both veteran players and freshmen. This morning it was so bad that for the first time in months i was the ONLY player online playing a map, Orbital_invasion. Made it to wave 15 though, piercing is your friend. but anyways, it's good that there is change, it keeps things fresh, challenging and up to date, but now it seems like that is at the cost of active players.. and we need those to keep the server running and have fun in the game and community.
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DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

MMA_T1mesh1fter wrote:
DW_WailofSuicide wrote: My question is, what's boring about them compared to other monsters?
It's not that their attacks or behavior is boring, cause many dino abilities are actually pretty neat, the petri rays, the gumballs(things get a nickname fast i notice:P) they prove to be quite a challenge sometimes.
The thing which makes it boring is because it are all dino's, 1 dino or 2 dino species would not have mattered, but it are way too many, besides that dino's don't really fit the monster mash feeling (but thats just my feeling about it) they replace some of the great monsters we had before(gief back badgers, angus blades, Tony's creation(maybe weird, but those always made it a challenging 15th wave), that gives me some kind of homesick feeling.. as if somethings missing, i guess i'm not the only one with that look on it.. cause everyday i hear people talking about it online,some are happy with the changes, some don't care and some share my opinion.
Like tiger stated, since the first updates to the monster roster, more and more players stop showing up online, both veteran players and freshmen. This morning it was so bad that for the first time in months i was the ONLY player online playing a map, Orbital_invasion. Made it to wave 15 though, piercing is your friend. but anyways, it's good that there is change, it keeps things fresh, challenging and up to date, but now it seems like that is at the cost of active players.. and we need those to keep the server running and have fun in the game and community.
I don't see what's boring about "They're all dinos." That's sort of like saying, "They're all Unreal monsters." I don't see how that makes a difference really. But hey, guess you guys can have it back the way it was.
MMA_T1mesh1fter
Pro but Noob
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Venlo, close to lalaland
Contact:

You know, i think it isn't possible to explain it:O the best way i can bring it is, we kinda got attached to the old monster setup, but that doesn't mean dino's have to go, cause for instance spinosaurs, and those who shoot the petri rays were nice new monsters to fight. It were just too many new monsters of the same species at once:) expecially now angus blades, certain titans and badgers have left the building:)
Ofc a monster setup needs to change every once in a while, and make room for newcommers, but this was simply too much change in a short period of time.
As for the dino's, The design is great, the idea's are great, the dino pack itself is great, but in some way, it does not completely fit with the rest. but we (at least I) can get used to 1 or 2 fresh ancient reptiles, just not the whole bunch^^

however, what i did like about the new setup are the Globe flies, i love the chaos they make by just being invincible xD you see 1 fly, follow by 3 hysterical players spamming mines, shock rays and nades at it, really a fun thing to see everytime a new map starts xD
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warhead2
1337 Haxor
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:55 am
Location: Indiana

Just becase feedback is key and helpful, i say anything here. Current setup is very playable and i am content with it but yea i'll agree with these guys in that i liked the pre-dino setup much better. i would not mind a return to it. You can't go wrong with waves that got tons and tons of titans, that is awsome fun, and i miss seeing that. i also really miss the Gold Angus. Very pretty monster with awsome xp and fun to kill. To sum it up however, I would say this server is called Monster Mash, and it seems now you can Mash less, as now it's really hard to net up a decent score like you used to. Seems there are just too many little dinos around that no one really cares about.

-however-, that being said, here are some things i really like about the new setup which i wouldn't mind hanging around:
spinos-they are so frightening in appearance and their attacks and very cool
trex-again a very cool looking attack, and i believe they petrify you, another cool thing
greenbacks-dunno their name, but there back is green, they walk low to ground, and if you hit their legs with any weapon, it's triple damage without using a triple. reward for those who use aim is very cool.
-having more dinos than Raptors which Hunter weapons works on is cool
-and of course the 'globe' flies which have huge shields to first take down is way cool, i luv it, makes first wave actually exciting for once

Needless to say you guys are doing a great job. It's great that you want to maintain things and keep it fresh and new. Change is good and variety is the spice of life, so i'm cool with it. I'm very sure in time you can tweak things with existing setup to give the old timers that old 'tony' feeling. Your changes of late have made a big difference and it's getting better and better :ssmile:
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DW_Ant
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Warhead wrote:trex-again a very cool looking attack, and i believe they petrify you, another cool thing
That's the Allosaurus.
Warhead wrote:greenbacks-dunno their name, but there back is green, they walk low to ground, and if you hit their legs with any weapon, it's triple damage without using a triple. reward for those who use aim is very cool.
That's the Ankylosaurus.

I believe part of the problem with dinosaurs is their collision detection inaccuracy.

Their collisions are smaller than their visual appearance. You'll specially notice this when you're attacking a dinosaur from its side. You only can hit them when you shoot their torso region especially with the Allosaurus.

I understand that they're using Cylinder collision and Dinosaurs are oddly shaped/not cylinder. But perhaps you can reference the old raptors for collision.
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DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

DW_Ant wrote:
Warhead wrote:trex-again a very cool looking attack, and i believe they petrify you, another cool thing
That's the Allosaurus.
Warhead wrote:greenbacks-dunno their name, but there back is green, they walk low to ground, and if you hit their legs with any weapon, it's triple damage without using a triple. reward for those who use aim is very cool.
That's the Ankylosaurus.

I believe part of the problem with dinosaurs is their collision detection inaccuracy.

Their collisions are smaller than their visual appearance. You'll specially notice this when you're attacking a dinosaur from its side. You only can hit them when you shoot their torso region especially with the Allosaurus.

I understand that they're using Cylinder collision and Dinosaurs are oddly shaped/not cylinder. But perhaps you can reference the old raptors for collision.
Actually they don't use cylindrical collision, it's defined with boxes and spheres around the body parts of the dinosaurs. Unfortunately the guy who set up the original Dinotopia pack (Iniquitous) apparently didn't test the collision on some of the dinosaurs which is why the Allosaurus, Albertosaurus can only be hit when you aim for the legs/flanks and why you can't hit the heads of Ankylosaurus or Spinosaurus. From the looks of it updating the collision is a ~45MB file download for everyone joining the server so I'd prefer not to have to do that more than once.
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