Weapon Balance's

[Windigo]

OK i started this topic because i have noticed some off balance's in the weapons. EX> the Mingun and MP5 MP5 owns the Mingun but the Mingun should be better. I have look around for things that could change, such as the enchated enchanted Mingun. enchanted Mingun= More power same spreed same every thing ells. Or make the MP5 less powerful. Maybe the Mingun could have no weapon spreed or maybe make it to where the mingun fires 2 bullets at a time and has lots of wep spreed or make it to where it fires rounds faster. I dont know it just would be nice to have a good mingun. :scry:

[DW_FrankyTheFly]

Power of the minigun should not be increase. The minigun was intented to be a "finish him off" weapon in Deathmatch, only usefull when the player has 20hp or less. The fact that minigun bullets are inacurate and weak is intentional from the developpers point of view.

The mp5 power was already diminish several time on magic like piercing, petrification and damage over the past years. It's power is already at the minimum possible state, but still, some very bad AM or WM still find ways to abuse this weapon way to much. Most good and respectful high level players try to minimise the use of this weapon as much as possible to prevent total chaos in the server. For instance I always make sure not to go over 200 kills with the mp5, while i'm having around 200 kills with the flak, 150 with the shock, 100 with mine layer and 50 with the lg (total around 600-650).

Except for medics who use the mp5 has their main medic weapon, AM and WM should NEVER abuse the mp5 and becoming what we called an "mp5 whore". For instance, an mp5 whore AM will stop rolling all the other usefull weapons the team could benefit for by only rolling his mp5 and pretty much taking all the kills, resulting of a diminution of the average team works and a diminution of noobs appreciation of our server. But infortunatly, it's easy for some weak minded selfish players, that I wont name, to be corrupted by this.

[Corky]

much like the darkside, ultimate power(mp5), corrupts all

[DW_WailofSuicide]

It's probably not possible to make weapon balance any better - At least not any better without making drastic changes that people would be pissed off about.

Minigun is actually a pretty decent weapon and it is more effective (damage-wise) than the MP5 in some situations. However because the way the math works you tend not to see it being useful with certain magic types (e.g. Energy or Vampirism) since these magic types return a value based as a percentage of damage -- And the minigun does pathetic damage per shot (7-8), it just spits out a lot of shots.
Compared to the MP5 the Minigun's most identifying trait is how fast it shoots. But when you're running 100 weapon speed the MP5 isn't really any slower than the Minigun - 12 shots a second vs. 15 the Minigun will put out is not a huge difference. Similarly, the sniper weapons lose a lot of their role to the Shock Rifle since there's rarely ever a point in going for spike damage (LtG or Sniper) over sustained DPS (Shock Rifle) in the Invasion gametype. Most of the newer (Hypothermia) monsters will recognize headshots, so at least that's something fun to play with and can actually push the sniping weapons DPS back up to comparable levels, however you've still got to hit the headshots which is not always guaranteed.

Something like the Bio Rifle is probably never going to be highly useful in Invasion just because of overall design of the weapon (its usefulness is kind of iffy even in standard UT gametypes). Same with the Grenade Launcher and Avril/Amril, Link Gun secondary, etc.

[Windigo]

But when u use a mingun in the game u get 1 xp for 1.5 seconds (o wep speed and 204 db) but I pull out link i get 3 xp for 1 seconds same stats or for mp5 I get 1 xp for 1 seconds and like u all said it dosen't work good whit vamp

[DW_Ant]

Is the monster level identical when you tested these weapons?
Are you shooting the same monster with these weapons?
Are you shooting a monster that doesn't have strong or weak spots?
Are your weapons neutral (no magic modifiers)?

[lios]

"Power of the minigun should not be increase. The minigun was intented to be a "finish him off" weapon in Deathmatch, only usefull when the player has 20hp or less. The fact that minigun bullets are inacurate and weak is intentional from the developpers point of view." Frankythefly

Obviously, this is not Death match. Minigun is obviously not going to be used as a "finish him off weapon", considering that a titan "low health" is not 20hp or less,even relative to DB and WP,the %'s hardly match up. Also, I disagree with the "finish him off" weapon idea about minigun. At close range, the minigun is a very powerful weapon against opponents. At this point in time in DW, the Minigun is essentially a down trodden weapon that always gets its butt kicked by the mp5. Although it is effective in some cases, it still doesn't provide very good xp. This should not be the case. Also to bring up another point Wallofsuicide brings up, yes, the minigun is at some points, more powerful than the mp5. However, the mp5 all around snipe- usefulness does make the mp5 considerably more powerful than the minigun. As franky points out, people should not abuse the power of mp5, and the mp5 has already been "clamped" if you will numerous times. My point is not that the mp5 is overpowered, but compared to the mp5, the minigun is very weak and should be revamped in some way. I'll get to my ideas on that in a sec.

Part of what makes the minigun a good gun in deathmatch is not it's power or accuracy, or semi-snipe abilities of the mp5, but that at close range it is accurate because of it's speed(with good weapon tracing). Because the minigun is so fast already, having maxed weapon speed doesn't really make it more effective. This is hard to explain my reasoning, but i'll try. A weapon like the minigun gains it's accuracy from it's speed. By 100 weapon speed, the miniguns accuracy isn't increasing that much its' already has very fast weapon speed. If we only had miniguns, it would be more effective to max out db first than weapon speed: Wps is usually used for extra damage(for guns like the link gun, for example)unlike those guns, the minigun does not gain much from the wps: not accuracy (because of it's already fastness) or damage. This negates the usefulness of weapon speed. Unlike the mp5, which starts out with slowish wps already, adding wps for mp5 increases it's accuracy greatly, and also increases it's damage because of it hits pretty hard.

In conclusion, the miniguns "failness" against the mp5 (and as a weapon in itself) in DW is not that it's entirley weak in itself, but that because the minigun gains very small bonuses from wps, and that because of it's small dmg before DB and the fact that it's power was based on accuracy, not strength, and +wps doesn't give very much extra accuracy against the targets we go up against, the bonuses really do not work in with the miniguns inherent abilities. In many ways, you could say that it shouldn't even be used, and that it's really just a death match gun. The minigun i believe, does need to be revamped in some way. As response to Wallofsuicide, your statement that people would be pissed could be true: no-one really likes change at first. In order to counteract this, however, you could host a forum topic about the minigun. If it games lots of posts from regular forum folks (you'd have to make some announcements on the page about it, or else it wouldn't be fair: it would be like your hiding the forum). The posts don't have to be "yes" or "no". You shouldn't have to figure that out. But if it does gain alot of posts, you could hold a referundum on testing out new ideas for minigun. I wouldn't say complete revamp yet, because you'd have to get insight about the weapon.

Some ideas on revamping: Make every other shot fire 2 rounds. Switch out mini-gun with enchanted minigun. Windigo post more ideas about magic modifiers and the Enchanted minigun. The minigun must keep it's normal role of close combat: we don't want a mp5 copy.

Well, I hope someone will read this a give some insight that isn't just ranting. That would be nice.

Another point to miniguns not-effectivness: try comparing minigun xp vs. mp5 or link or shock or... :ssmile:

A weapon of little or no destruction is not much to fight a devil with.
==Lios==

[Windigo]

Yes i use all of the tings you use on the sever I downloaded them, Plus i also tested this one the sever 2.

[lios]

Is the monster level identical when you tested these weapons?
Are you shooting the same monster with these weapons?
Are you shooting a monster that doesn't have strong or weak spots?
Are your weapons neutral (no magic modifiers)?

Wouldn't Lucifer be a very good tester as well? I mean, you could very easily test the effectiveness.

[Windigo]

I will make a vid on the test and show u why it is under power :sdull: