So is messing with your .ini a hack?

[joeblow]

Hey guys

First off I want this to be a nice discussion and not accusations and shit.

Had a good night /am scrim and the topic of .ini manipulation came up.

I think Jetts opinion is that any .ini is a hack and is not allowed in a turrny etc.

I kind disagree since I know the main groups/guilds/clans do it. Its listed in the Atari forums and its on Cains lair forums as well. I dont since I'm a computer noob and ,shit I dont care to anyway ,my games fun the way I play it "straight up" right outta the box.

I'm talking about the "fast weapon" switch I guess I call it. Its the bind where EXAMPLE: you load/ shoot 3 rockets at once then weapon switch to the flack ball (secondary) . I see a lotta the " good " players do this one since its the highest damage weapons in the game. What it does is it beat out the reload time of the weapon designed into the game originally so you end up faster than say me and my .ini i bought at wal mart 2 year ago.

I am not taking about that certain program that has/includes "rapid fire" that we get from Mr. Death over seas. :cyclopsani: I wanna leave out secondary programs from this discussion if we can.

Enjoyed the games this morning. GG all.

SO what does the brain trust think?


wp

[RaeP]

Hi guys im [SD]»RàéP«° of the Silent Dragons Clan ...my name is pronounced rape or reap wich ever you like :) most people say SD becuase they dont know what to make of the inverted a and e in Raep ....i think you guys have a great server and some good people in your clan..i usually enjoy my games in your DW server...

now the reason i am here is that this morning i was kind of accused of being a hacker..
here is how it went i heard someone say to the admin to ask SD if he manipulated his ini file because his jumps seem higher or longer than normal....so i asked this person if he thought i was cheating ...guess he didnt know i could hear him...anyway he asked me if i manipulated my ini file and i said only for keybinds seems that some people in that server considered me a hacker or in other words a cheater....some peeps said no..

i just feel the need to clear things up,, i am not posting in any form of anger meerly to disscuss ...i dont like my or my clans name to have any form of reputation on being cheaters or hackers.. because we are not...and i enjoy playing on your server and with the people who are usually there like stormgirl,, i fondlesweaters and others.,,
so these are the reasons im posting here...

now i agree to what Defient said .......quote""But when you start doing keybinds that do extra for you. like preloading 3 rockets to fire in a spiral trajectory as soon as you pick the weapon up. Switching to the flak cannon which will instantly fire after that. And then allows you to switch back to the rocket launcher. Which will then agian already be ready to fire 3 rockets at the press of s single button. This is a hack. The game was not designed to allow such a setup"""end quote

i do believe that is form of a hack as the average player would not be able to do these things, giving that player a very unfair advantage... this sort of ini configuration manipulation takes a good deal of know how...and i dont believe these sorts of settings are legal in pro tournament type of matches...

i dont use these sort of binds i will tell you my exact key bind that i use and have used for a long time now.the average weapons are binded to the number keys and the mouse wheel scroll..these are mine

w,a,s,d for movement nothing different there
................q for my link gun
................e to throw my weapon
................left shift for my lightning gun
................x for my mini gun
................first button on left side of mouse is shock riffle
................second button on left side of mouse is rocketts and aviral
................when i push the mouse wheel down i get flak gun
.................when i scroll down on wheel i get my shield gun
.................all other weapons i scroll up for
thats it all these binds can be done through the configuration settings menu without opening your ini file..i dont use any other extra binds like preloading rockets and a flak secondary and such

it might seem i have hacked but its just that i know exacly what to press and my fingers are all real close to my differnt weapons... and i have my binds memorized...i can do things like shoot an aviril then switch to shock hit a raptor twice then switch back to avirli and lock on very quickly.. or shoot rockets and then pull out my lightning gun shoot it and then switch back to say flak of shock all the weapons are at my conveniece...

i just dont want to be labled a hacker or a cheater because like i said i enjoy your server and i enjoy playing with you guys..

my movements are easily explained first off i play ons , ctf and alot of TAM i also play lots of trial maps and i practice a lot of trick jumping on Dodge Mod Pro maps "ima trick jumper in training. i do trick jumps in maps like campgrounds stuff like climbing walls with shield gun and making extremly long jumps using wall dodges and weapons...if you guys dont know DMP google it and check it out...all these things have greatly improved my movements in ut ...but i dont actuall jump higher or longer than im actually supposed to its no kind of hack or anything i usually use double tap jumps to get around its much faster than running to a node or regular jumps. im sure you guys already know that...

lol i didnt mean to write a book here :clown:

well there is a thread on the atari forums called advanced ut keybinding that shows you some stuff check it out do you consider these hacks ?

also there are some people usually found in trial maps who have keybinded taunt animations to there movement keys.. so when they walk around they also do taunts its actually funny to see.. :clown: is this considered a hack? here is what ive found some people say its not its just for fun.. other people say its like a botter in other words worthy of a ban,, because there head is constantly moving around so its harder to get a headshot...ivve checked on this and the hit box doesnt actually move although it might appear to so what do you guys think hack or not?

there are some usefull binds in that atari forum thread, like binding the f1 key to show the score like usual,, but also shows your frames per second and packets and such or whatever stats you want.... this is an ini job fairly easy to do but is this considered a hack ? just some food for thought so you guys can disscuse this issue

well i know this post was long i usually never post this long...i just wanted to clear things up about my keybinds dont want anyone here to think im a hacker or a cheater...
i wouldnt say im a great player i would call my self an experienced player....

anyone have any questions or would like any help with anything im always willing.......


Peace

[joeblow]

SD it was me last night. I 'm gald you made the time to post here and fill us in on what you do. Thanks for the clarification. Welcome to DW servers we have a blast late nights.

I also owe you an apology I hope you will accept it.



wp

[RaeP]

hay joe i remember it was you i just didnt want to name names..:)
no need for apologies but thanks for all you know i could of been a hacker..


i hope this thread hasnt come to a close im interested in knowing how the rest of you guys feel about this ini disscusion..defiant pretty much hit the button on the nose

but how do the rest of you guys feel ?

[Urtho]

\Rocket launchers and other such variable weapons have a specific speed setup and fire rate. Those being change are not even supported by the ini files. They can be done through your ini by telling it what to do to make it happen. But it's not a supported ini programing type. It's a little confusing and over whelming. But to make it 100% simple. Anything that changes how the game intially works is a hack. FPS, scores and binds to those are things within the scope of the game. Causing a rocket launcher to fire the secondary before you equip it is not.

If all that is being done is adding some commands to an ini file, this type of thing is not a hack. The ini files are read in by the game as part of the standard startup process and if this process allows something to be done within the game without the use of an external program or file, then by definition it is NOT a hack but simply an alterate or advanced configuration of possible game commands.

Now, having said that, the fact that something like this is possible to do at all is simply disgraceful on the part of Epic. Anyone new who picks up the game and learns how the weapons are supposed to work will not have a clue that something like this is even possible let alone how to do it or even use it in-game if someone else were to do the alterations for them. Heck I've been playing the game since it came out and I didn't know such an ini file modifcation was possible to yield such radically different weapon behaviors. Guess I don't hang around the pro forums enough (or at all really).

My take - this is not a traditonal hack or in any way illegal by the letter of the "law", but it is very shady and not in the spirit of the game to my mind. Frankly, I wouldn't mind at all if such a feature were removed as it does give those few in the know a decided advantage over most of the rest who don't take the time or effort to find the limits of what is possible when the rules of the game are pushed and prodded to the max. Tweaking your ini and using keybinds are fine, but this level of alteration such that weapons behave differently than they were designed to and people expect them to work goes too far for me. I woudn't say anyone using them is a "hack" but I'd view any victories or defeats by them in a far different light then I would for someone who didn't use such types of edits.

[DW_Bomzin]

I would think anything that operates outside the normal is a hack .

I do use pipe switching. But the same thing can be acheived with Key strokes if I want to lose the "I'm on Defense " key. I do not consider this a hack .

Switching to a loaded rocket launcher I to did not know about through .ini editing. But would consider it a hack .

[DW_WailofSuicide]

I'm not aware of any keybinds that allow you to skip loading the RL... That would certainly be an exploit, but most keybinds are not. On the other hand I frown on keybinds that do anything more than one step for you -- ex. In CTF, many players have keybinds that automatically switch to the translocator, throw it, teleport, and then immediately switch back to their previous weapon -- Not cheating, as it doesn't do anything not normally allowed, but it's certainly a crutch. Lets put it this way, if you are relying on the computer to automate complex activities for you, why even bother playing the game? Weapon switching, timing movement and so on is part of the game, it is not just about pointing and shooting.

I realize that probably all "Pro" players use these things, but I think it's pretty questionable. I don't think Tim Sweeney has expressed a view on this, but I know he (and I) consider dumping graphics settings in order to gain advantages (ex. turning off coronas so they can't block your view) as cheating.