New Threat System Proposition

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Do you prefer the new threat system over the old threat system?

Poll ended at Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:25 am

I prefer the current/old threat system.
0
No votes
I prefer the new threat system.
3
100%
 
Total votes: 3
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2670
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

I've been thinking about revising the Threat system to be much more visible and simpler. The threat system is essentially just an experience multiplier. The multiplier increases when the player casts abilities that benefits the team. In general, the classes with weaker offense (such as Paladins) have more opportunities to increase their threat levels compared to the Berserkers.


I have a few issues with the current threat system:
  • Invisible to the player. Since each monster contains their own player to threat mapping, I can't simply flood the player's hud (and bandwidth) with the monster's current threat levels.
  • Ability's threat reward is very inconsistent based on when you cast the ability. Currently, it's optimal to cast threat replenishing abilities right when the monsters spawned (instead at the end of battle). New monsters that just spawned will always have default threat. This often causes wasted threat potential when abilities are casted when no monsters are around.
  • Very difficult to balance. There are many factors that makes the current threat system difficult to balance. I'll have to run a local debug build to read threat values from monsters, and the reasons mentioned earlier in this list adds to the complexity when testing.

The system I propose is to have more of a global threat system. Each player will have one threat value, and their experience is multiplied by that threat value regardless which monster they attack. This leads to multiple benefits such as:
  • I can display a single numeric value of the threat value on the hud (probably under the adrenaline).
  • Reduces the need to cast abilities at an optimal time since threat can be gained against monsters that didn't even spawn yet.
  • This can lead to other threat mechanics. For example, the player's maximum threat can be gained by the class.
  • This can make abilities clear in how much threat they will replenish. I can add their threat gain rates in their descriptions, and the player can see how much their threat increases when utilizing those abilities.

The down side behind this new system (other than it'll require work and multiple iterations to rebalance the abilities):
  • Threat will need to diminish over time so abilities casted at the beginning of the game doesn't affect threat at the end of game.
  • I cannot have abilities give threat to individual monsters. Abilities such as Sacrifice and Paladin's perk currently only gives threat to the related monster(s). I'll have to change their mechanics or balance those abilities' threat rewards if I were to implement this new system.


From my brief brainstorm session, here are some other threat mechanics I can add with this new threat system:
  • Sustaining abilities (such as when a spirit is alive), will reduce the rate at which your threat decreases.
  • Certain minor/passive abilities could suspend threat from diminishing diminish instead of increasing threat. I was thinking this could go in something like the Paladin's perk. This would prevent players from farming a bunch of threat just from taking damage, but any previously accumulated threat will remain longer when the Paladin is in combat.
  • The threat min and max values can be adjusted based on class. I don't think I'll be adjusting the min values though.

This is currently in design and proposition phase. I won't be implementing this for the next updates, but it may be something that could be added later if you are in favor of this new system over the old system. What are your thoughts? Please vote in the poll.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

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christmas
1337 Haxor
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:30 pm

Hey Ant, how you doin? long time....

i think i did sent you a proposition of threat back then, like 1,5 years ago, fully detailed. yes I did. it had variations, 2 or 3, but it was mainly on a global threat factor per player VS monsters. in 1 case i even had them split into alive + those who didnt spawn yet, as in 2 threat factors per player. but in the simplest form it was 1 global threat VS ALL monsters (alive + those who didnt spawn), with a negating factor reducing threat/minute of playtime, to keep momentum and not have maxed threat once reached for the rest of match.

if values didnt change since then (as I recall)
starting threat =0,4 and max threat = 1 (change to get 250% xp of base xp, aka +150% xp boost).
with added threat X where X can go up to 0,6
with an equation of the form: Final threat = 0,4 + X - Y/minute < 1 (or equal to 1)
so every minute of match the Final threat is reduced by Y value to give players the motive to produce new threat (of course Y would be a small value, like 0,06 or at worse 0,2 assuming a map with continuous flow of monsters).

however before you get to that you need to revisit things i told you back then.
zerk upping a weapon gets.... 0 threat. rip
pala summoning a spirit .... gg almost maxed threat..... but afterwards?!?!?
pala spamming medkits and allies picking ->maxed threat
i can recall other examples like these but wth....

what i want to say is, all abilities shall provide threat (considering solo play) and a good measure would be the average (in general) amount of adr spent....



ps: found it. check your email on Feb 20, 2015, its 23 pages long.
DW_WailofSuicide
DW Clan Member
Posts: 1634
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:00 am

Personally I think Threat is a flawed system to begin with, although I grant that it's better than nothing barring a complete restructuring of ME. I am mostly in favor of simplifying it though, if you think it's worth the effort. Having a single value that's presented on the UI in some way is much better than a random invisible multiplier value that varies from monster to monster, situation to situation.
Knight
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:33 pm

Overall, I like this proposed threat system. It seems streamlined and more obvious what a player can do in order to maximize their xp gain.

On a more fundamental question: Is the purpose of such a system to normalize xp gain across classes in light of contrasts in class characteristics?
DW_Ant
DW Clan Member
Posts: 2670
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Knight wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:39 pm On a more fundamental question: Is the purpose of such a system to normalize xp gain across classes in light of contrasts in class characteristics?
That's one reason. The other reason behind this threat system is to encourage players to utilize more team-oriented abilities.
The difference between successful people from others is
not in the lack of strength,
not in the lack of knowledge,
but rather in the lack of will.

FFE466

_________________________
{F}{AH}{CivFR}{XC}{U}{DF}{CJ}{SD}
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